Zaheer Khan ruled out of England series,R.P Singh is the replacement

[BoyBrumby]

I am not sure you could attribute fitness only to muscles and Cuts tbh.

The basic body physique and Genes differs from country to country and region tbh and obviously player to player. Sachin has never really had a muscular frame or cuts but that hasn't really hindered him too much and he is one of the hardest working players.

It's a natural physique he has that is a bit like say Wayne Rooney compared to the cuts of Cristiano Ronaldo or a Nani who have massive muscles and Visibly toned bodies when they go shirtless.
And with the added difference that for a batsman in Cricket it is not as important to have pure muscle as it is for a footballer.

Vidic is pretty lean, tbf. Certainly far more so than the tubby Pikey.

But before we digress too far, I'll say bowling fast is comfortably the most physically demanding discipline in the sport. Fat seamers tend not to last too long.

 

[Cevno]

Vidic is pretty lean, tbf. Certainly far more so than the tubby Pikey.



But before we digress too far, I'll say bowling fast is comfortably the most physically demanding discipline in the sport. Fat seamers tend not to last too long.

Yeah,that is why i removed him after including him in the first place.
Rooney and say Fletcher are a better comparison in terms of United players.

What i was addressing was your point about Sachin looking unfit. I don't think he is unfit at all , that like Rooney is his natural physique and i don't think it affects his batting too much either.

As for Fast bowlers you have a point but Indians tend to have less cuts and muscles compared to western players and general public genetically to an extent.
For example Kapil Dev -

He wouldn't be ideal if you have to put someone on the cover of a Fitness magazine to show off his body. But he was one of the fittest cricketers ever and used to run miles on miles every day.And hardly missed many matches in almost 20 years to add too.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Yeah,that is why i removed him after including him in the first place.
Rooney and say Fletcher are a better comparison in terms of United players.

What i was addressing was your point about Sachin looking unfit. I don't think he is unfit at all , that like Rooney is his natural physique and i don't think it affects his batting too much either.

As for Fast bowlers you have a point but Indians tend to have less cuts and muscles compared to western players and general public genetically to an extent.
For example Kapil Dev -

He wouldn't be ideal if you have to put someone on the cover of a Fitness magazine to show off his body. But he was one of the fittest cricketers ever and used to run miles on miles every day.And hardly missed many matches in almost 20 years to add too.

Nothing wrong with Kapil's physique at all. Can see his definition even in that pic.

But I'm not suggesting all seamers should be muscle-bound, the likes of Ambrose, McGrath & Bruce Reid (ok, bad example given his fitness record) were like racing snakes. What I am saying is players & seamers in particular gaining weight in their down time is indicative of a certain lack of focus.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

But before we digress too far, I'll say bowling fast is comfortably the most physically demanding discipline in the sport. Fat seamers tend not to last too long.

Don't some of the older bowlers like Willis etc actually prefer bowlers to have a bit of fat on their legs/backside to help prevent injury when bowling so many overs?

I'm sure I've heard a number of them comment on how it helps. At least in the olden days

 

[BoyBrumby]

Don't some of the older bowlers like Willis etc actually prefer bowlers to have a bit of fat on their legs/backside to help prevent injury when bowling so many overs?

I'm sure I've heard a number of them comment on how it helps. At least in the olden days

I know some like a big fast bowlers aris. Brett Lee had a great quick's arse.

But it's a big muscled arse, rather than junk in the trunk.

 

[Daemon]

Nothing wrong with Kapil's physique at all. Can see his definition even in that pic.

But I'm not suggesting all seamers should be muscle-bound, the likes of Ambrose, McGrath & Bruce Reid (ok, bad example given his fitness record) were like racing snakes. What I am saying is players & seamers in particular gaining weight in their down time is indicative of a certain lack of focus.

Yeah, I see where you're going. The argument right now isn't whether players can be good while looking unfit or that Zaheer doesn't look fit, it's that he looks worse than he used to which indicates he hasn't been taking care of his fitness. Even if he wasn't able to exercise, he should've kept to a diet; lack of professionalism. But I still don't think this lack of professionalism is a significant reason for India losing the series.

 

[Cevno]

Nothing wrong with Kapil's physique at all. Can see his definition even in that pic.

But I'm not suggesting all seamers should be muscle-bound, the likes of Ambrose, McGrath & Bruce Reid (ok, bad example given his fitness record) were like racing snakes. What I am saying is players & seamers in particular gaining weight in their down time is indicative of a certain lack of focus.

Yeah you may have a point there, but just felt you were over simplifying it a bit with regards to his lack of muscles or upper arm cuts and comparing it to Tremlett.

Ultimately a lot comes down to natural fitness and luck too. Some are just naturally fitter than others. Shoaib Akthar had a pretty good frame compared to many other bowlers in terms of his Muscles and lean body but was still really injury prone.
Shane Bond was really not overweight either and Simon Jones had one major incident. And sometimes adding too much muscle can make you less flexible and more injury prone too.

With regards to Injuries to the lower part of the body sometimes there is not much you can do about too, except keeping warmed up and managing the workload.
Ftr i am not saying that Zaheer's injuries would have nothing to do with preparation and fitness work, but don't think we can say conclusively either way.

 

[Goughy]

I dont think people should be reading too much into Brumby's comments. Quite simply, when a guy if running around on a smallish frame with a visible belly and lack of muscle definition then it stikes of failing to prepare and not putting in the hard yards. Noone knows if he would be injured or not if he didnt have the tummy but sport is about playing percentages and trying to make things go your own way.

Nothing more or less than it looks bad.

 

[Top_Cat]

Can't believe there's not more angst about this, tbh. That Zaheer hasn't kept his weight off when injured is a point against him personally, yes, but that he played at all is unforgivable from a team selection standpoint. His hammie went (a decent indicator of lack of fitness, usually) but that's on top of the far more serious and long-term ankle injury which has flared up again and he now needs 4 months off to fix. Rather than taking the WI tour off, getting bowling again then working on his fitness in between matches, the Indian team should have put him on the injured list until he could prove he was both injury-free and fit before even playing a match. After a long layoff, especially with a joint injury, you can't just slot right back in to play FC/Test cricket as soon as you can run in and bowl a few in the nets, if nothing else the miles in the legs condition your body against further injury. This is especially pivotal since this injury could conceivably end his Test career.

One wonders about the machinations behind the scenes but either the Indian selectors have burnt him in a desperate attempt to retain their number 1 ranking, he's not looked after his own welfare or some combo of the two. It's bollocks to argue how much was at stake with this series, Glenn McGrath missed the entire 03/04 summer against the Indians to get his body right on top of Warne serving his ban. The team needed him desperately but he and the team management were smart enough to recognise you can't play Tests if you're not ready in all facets of your game. Coming back crocked/unfit and playing only part of the series has hurt the team more than if Zaheer didn't play at all, in my view.

 

[Burgey]

India in England 2011: Zaheer Khan ruled out of series | Cricket News | England v India 2011 | ESPN Cricinfo

Apparently ZAK requires surgery on his ankle too and will be out for about 4 months.

So he'll be coming in cold to the series out here.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

So he'll be coming in cold to the series out here.

If he makes it at all.

 

[Burgey]

If he makes it at all.

That would be amusing.

 

[EnglishCricket]

So he'll be coming in cold to the series out here.

Again more great preparation from the Indian camp.

 

[Furball]

Can't believe there's not more angst about this, tbh. That Zaheer hasn't kept his weight off when injured is a point against him personally, yes, but that he played at all is unforgivable from a team selection standpoint. His hammie went (a decent indicator of lack of fitness, usually) but that's on top of the far more serious and long-term ankle injury which has flared up again and he now needs 4 months off to fix. Rather than taking the WI tour off, getting bowling again then working on his fitness in between matches, the Indian team should have put him on the injured list until he could prove he was both injury-free and fit before even playing a match. After a long layoff, especially with a joint injury, you can't just slot right back in to play FC/Test cricket as soon as you can run in and bowl a few in the nets, if nothing else the miles in the legs condition your body against further injury. This is especially pivotal since this injury could conceivably end his Test career.

One wonders about the machinations behind the scenes but either the Indian selectors have burnt him in a desperate attempt to retain their number 1 ranking, he's not looked after his own welfare or some combo of the two. It's bollocks to argue how much was at stake with this series, Glenn McGrath missed the entire 03/04 summer against the Indians to get his body right on top of Warne serving his ban. The team needed him desperately but he and the team management were smart enough to recognise you can't play Tests if you're not ready in all facets of your game. Coming back crocked/unfit and playing only part of the series has hurt the team more than if Zaheer didn't play at all, in my view.

He proved he was fit when he bowled 10 overs in the first innings of the tour match against Somerset. The BCCI rejects your accusations of unprofessionalism.

 

[Furball]

If he makes it at all.

He'll make it to Australia, whether he plays any cricket is a different story.

 

[FBU]

India's fast bowlers

79 Tests 273 wickets at 31.78 econ 3.28 s/r 58.0 - Khan (32)
36 Tests 121 wickets at 33.00 econ 3.41 s/r 58.0 - Sharma (22)
29 Tests 100 wickets at 32.26 econ 3.28 s/r 58.8 - Pathan (26)
25 Tests 84 wickets at 35.59 econ 3.56 s/r 59.8 - Sreesanth (28)
13 Tests 35 wickets at 38.54 econ 3.04 s/r 75.9 - Patel (28)
13 Tests 40 wickets at 39.10 econ 4.02 s/r 58.2 - RP Singh (25)
5 Tests 25 wickets at 23.96 econ 2.62 s/r 54.8 - Kumar (24)

Why hasn't Pathan played any first class cricket in eighteen months?

 

[smash84]

RP went pretty well over here last time. He's also a fellow cack hander, so I suppose his selection does make some kind of sense.

Disappointed in Zaheer, really. He clearly hasn't put the hard yards in in the gym, as amply testified by his, er, ample gut. There was a pic of him sitting on a massive exercise ball after the TB test and he resemble nothing so much as a tubby father resting on a beach ball while the young 'uns build their sandcastles. Contrast his lack of upper arm definition to, say, Tremlett's undeniably impressive "guns", as I believe you younger people call them nowadays.

Yes, we know he's had a rough trot of injuries, but he patently hasn't given himself the best chance to overcome his woes. You can only piss with the **** you've got.

funny post I thought and do agree with you somewhat regarding Zaheer's fitness.

I know some like a big fast bowlers aris. Brett Lee had a great quick's arse.

But it's a big muscled arse, rather than junk in the trunk.

lol @ big muscled arse

Nothing wrong with Kapil's physique at all. Can see his definition even in that pic.

But I'm not suggesting all seamers should be muscle-bound, the likes of Ambrose, McGrath & Bruce Reid (ok, bad example given his fitness record) were like racing snakes. What I am saying is players & seamers in particular gaining weight in their down time is indicative of a certain lack of focus.

Yeah that picture is pretty decent and you can see the muscle that Kapil is packing. Zaheer seems more fleshy (or flabby) than muscular. And wouldn't agree with SC bowlers not having that muscle. You don't need to be an arnold to be bowling quick but you do need to be in shape and at least should err on the side of having less weight than more of it. So yes agree with Brumby here.

some of the bowlers not so stellar but not out of shape.

Can't believe there's not more angst about this, tbh. That Zaheer hasn't kept his weight off when injured is a point against him personally, yes, but that he played at all is unforgivable from a team selection standpoint. His hammie went (a decent indicator of lack of fitness, usually) but that's on top of the far more serious and long-term ankle injury which has flared up again and he now needs 4 months off to fix. Rather than taking the WI tour off, getting bowling again then working on his fitness in between matches, the Indian team should have put him on the injured list until he could prove he was both injury-free and fit before even playing a match. After a long layoff, especially with a joint injury, you can't just slot right back in to play FC/Test cricket as soon as you can run in and bowl a few in the nets, if nothing else the miles in the legs condition your body against further injury. This is especially pivotal since this injury could conceivably end his Test career.

One wonders about the machinations behind the scenes but either the Indian selectors have burnt him in a desperate attempt to retain their number 1 ranking, he's not looked after his own welfare or some combo of the two. It's bollocks to argue how much was at stake with this series, Glenn McGrath missed the entire 03/04 summer against the Indians to get his body right on top of Warne serving his ban. The team needed him desperately but he and the team management were smart enough to recognise you can't play Tests if you're not ready in all facets of your game. Coming back crocked/unfit and playing only part of the series has hurt the team more than if Zaheer didn't play at all, in my view.

top quality post

@Cevno. Shoaib akhtar had become such a fat **** towards the 2nd half of his career. Check out the big arse standing here with Imran Khan who looks much fitter at 50 than Akhtar does at 25.

 

[TT Boy]

Vidic is pretty lean, tbf. Certainly far more so than the tubby Pikey.

But before we digress too far, I'll say bowling fast is comfortably the most physically demanding discipline in the sport. Fat seamers tend not to last too long.

Ian Austin did 13+ years county service and even took the new ball for England despite being 3 for 4 stone overweight. Shane Watson, who probably has about 7% body fat to go with his hulk like frame has had multiple stress fractures and spent years on the treatment table. Simon Jones too, he still looks great (aesthetically) and still can’t string a game let alone a season together. Easy to attribute Khan being a lard ass for the injuries but I think it is a little bit more complicated than that as it is hard to decipher if someone is physically fit (or fit for bowling) through sheer aesthetics. And last time I looked, England's hero at Trent Bridge Tim Bresnan had two chins.

 

[Athlai]

Bond was hardly a fatty either.

 

[Top_Cat]

The point, though, is that aside from winning the genetic lottery and being born with joints of steel and legs of oak, you don't do yourself any favours by being bigger than you need to be and, say, prone to ankle problems. There's absolutely no downside to being fit as a quick so why not do it, not least of all because it's your profession? It's literally the most easily controlled part of being a pro athlete so may as well take it off the table in terms of stuff which can **** you.

And, as I said earlier, it's rare to ping a hammie if you're fit.