Your top ten TEST bowlers of ALL-TIME

[kyear2]

Awta. Which is why I also say that There isn't really too much to choose between the top 10-15 fast bowlers of all time. A couple of runs here and there doesn't make you too shabby

There really isn't. Which is y sometimes it comes down to nit picking and personal opinion. Top 20 fast men IMO (and in no particular order):

Marshall
Mcgrath
Imran
Waqar
Akram
Ambrose
Steyn
Donald
Trueman
Hadlee
Garner
Holding
Lindwall
Roberts
Walsh
Pollock
Fazal
Davidson
Statham
Miller/Bedser/Willis etc etc

But there is a clear gap between the Marshall's, McGrath's, and say the the second tier (again Lillee is the hardest to decide where to place him) and them similarly between those players and the Walsh's and below (with the exception of Davidson) with Lindwall and Roberts somewhere in between.

Steyn is hard to place at this time as I stated previously he is securing his legacy, but he is still building it and by the time he is finished he may very well be top 3 or 5.

 

[Eds]

Yeah, I tend to agree with kyear. I reckon:

Marshall [Undecided - sometimes I'd say GAP sometimes not] McGrath, Ambrose [GAP] (Barnes), Lillee [GAP] Imran, Waqar, Hadlee, Garner, Trueman, Donald, Holding, Akram, and now Steyn [GAP] Lindwall, Roberts, Miller [GAP] Walsh, Davidson [GAP] Aaand the floodgates then open.

I'd say Steyn is bottom of that 'silver tier' right now (no disrespect to him, it's full of incredible bowlers). But I'd say he's got the potential to be at the top of it or even on a par with Lillee and Barnes.

 

[hendrix]

The SC summers get really hot. Lahore hits 45C+ for about 1 to 2 months. But intl cricket has always taken place in Pakistan from October to April. Not in the summer months. Same for India I would reckon.

English summers are pretty cool temp wise so it isn't a problem there and SA always have good temperature in their cricket season.

Even if Sydney is that hot for about 2 weeks it isn't that long a window and I am not sure how much international cricket is played in Sydney during those 2 weeks.

It's funny, in the Wellington test vs India the Cricinfo commentators and reports sympathised with the Indian bowlers for running in on a "scorching hot day". They clearly have never been to Wellington. It basically never gets above 28 degrees, and even if it does get that hot, there's never any humidity to accompany it. It may look like tough conditions on TV, but really it's just very pleasant to be outside in Wellington on a day like that.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Yeah, I tend to agree with kyear. I reckon:

Marshall [Undecided - sometimes I'd say GAP sometimes not] McGrath, Ambrose [GAP] (Barnes), Lillee [GAP] Imran, Waqar, Hadlee, Garner, Trueman, Donald, Holding, Akram, and now Steyn [GAP] Lindwall, Roberts, Miller [GAP] Walsh, Davidson [GAP] Aaand the floodgates then open.

I'd say Steyn is bottom of that 'silver tier' right now (no disrespect to him, it's full of incredible bowlers). But I'd say he's got the potential to be at the top of it or even on a par with Lillee and Barnes.

The fact that with someone else this list could be completely different suggests that Silfer is right.

 

[Eds]

The fact that with someone else this list could be completely different suggests that Silfer is right.

Well if the list is "completely different" then they'd be wrong. Obviously there's plenty of space for gradual movings up and down based on opinion but if you want Walsh > Marshall or anything like that then you're just flat out wrong.

What major changes would you suggest?

 

[kyear2]

Yeah, I tend to agree with kyear. I reckon:

Marshall [Undecided - sometimes I'd say GAP sometimes not] McGrath, Ambrose [GAP] (Barnes), Lillee [GAP] Imran, Waqar, Hadlee, Garner, Trueman, Donald, Holding, Akram, and now Steyn [GAP] Lindwall, Roberts, Miller [GAP] Walsh, Davidson [GAP] Aaand the floodgates then open.

I'd say Steyn is bottom of that 'silver tier' right now (no disrespect to him, it's full of incredible bowlers). But I'd say he's got the potential to be at the top of it or even on a par with Lillee and Barnes.

Would put Ambrose (drop), Holding and Steyn with Lillee and Barnes personally and would swap Davidson with Miller. But yea mostly agree.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Well if the list is "completely different" then they'd be wrong. Obviously there's plenty of space for gradual movings up and down based on opinion but if you want Walsh > Marshall or anything like that then you're just flat out wrong.

What major changes would you suggest?

I don't know, because I agree with Silfer.

 

[Eds]

What does that even mean?

 

[kyear2]

What does that even mean?

Nothing I imagine, just trying to be contrary.

 

[watson]

Not sure why Lindwall doesn't consistently rate higher. He was Australia's premier fast bowler for at least a decade where he averaged between 21 and 22. Eventually finished with an average of 23.03.

Many of his victims were ATGs or close to it. In order of frequency: Compton, Hutton, Edrich, Mankad, Washbrook, Bailey, Walcott, May, Graveney, Weekes, Worrall, McGlew, Cowdrey, Richardson, Umrigar, Rowan, Hazare, Nourse etc.

I see him as a similar bowler to Waqar in style - only better.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Not sure why Lindwall doesn't consistently rate higher. He was Australia's premier fast bowler for at least a decade where he averaged between 21 and 22. Eventually finished with an average of 23.03.

Many of his victims were ATGs or close to it. In order of frequency: Compton, Hutton, Edrich, Mankad, Washbrook, Bailey, Walcott, May, Graveney, Weekes, Worrall, McGlew, Cowdrey, Richardson, Umrigar, Rowan, Hazare, Nourse etc.

I see him as a similar bowler to Waqar in style - only better.

Does anyone have a clip of Lindwall bowling?

 

[watson]

Does anyone have a clip of Lindwall bowling?

Some reasonable footage of Lindwall cartwheeling Bailey's middle stump;
SYDNEY - ENGLAND WINS SECOND TEST - British Pathé

 

[Agent Nationaux]

The stump cartwheeling was class.

 

[the big bambino]

Johnson sent one of Smith's stumps flying and I was going WHOA! Then I saw highlights of Duminy doing the same to Johnson and thought maybe they just watered the stumps.

 

[watson]

Johnson sent one of Smith's stumps flying and I was going WHOA! Then I saw highlights of Duminy doing the same to Johnson and thought maybe they just watered the stumps.

Wasn't so much the cartwheeling that impressed me but the accuracy of clean hitting the middle-stump after beating Bailey's normally emaculate defence. Alan Davidson is quoted as saying that Lindwall was the most accurate bowler he ever saw, and that he could hit a stump of Davidson's choice at will while bowling in the nets;

Ray Lindwall had the most beautiful bowling action. Everything about him was beautiful rhythm.....

Lindwall would hit the stumps eight times out of eight balls, and each time we nominated which stump. I once saw him bowl Peter May with a ball that was the equivalent of Shane Warne's ball to Mike Gatting. He was bowling with the new ball, and it swung from May's pads and took the off stump and was bowled at 85-90mph. It was better than Warne's ball.


http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/549432.html

 

[kyear2]

Not sure why Lindwall doesn't consistently rate higher. He was Australia's premier fast bowler for at least a decade where he averaged between 21 and 22. Eventually finished with an average of 23.03.

Many of his victims were ATGs or close to it. In order of frequency: Compton, Hutton, Edrich, Mankad, Washbrook, Bailey, Walcott, May, Graveney, Weekes, Worrall, McGlew, Cowdrey, Richardson, Umrigar, Rowan, Hazare, Nourse etc.

I see him as a similar bowler to Waqar in style - only better.

His WPM is a relatively low and his S/R a tad high. But admittedly in his prime he was near unplayable and the key to the bowling attack of the Invincibles and who humbled the 3W's at home and (with the exception of Walcott) away. He was express and had a mean out swinger, must have been more than special.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Cricket is all about balance. Fortunately it's not all it's not always about the best 6 batsmen and the best 4 bowlers. The match in S.A today is showing that while it's not critical, it's important to have that dependable 5th bowler, in this instance for the occurrence of injury. J.P didn't set the world on fire but he took a critical wicket and just as importantly tied up one end with economical bowling which kept things tight and allowed the front line bowlers to be rested and rotated efficiently to keep them as fresh as possible. Importantly this selection didn't weaken the normal batting lineup and he also scored a Hundred in the 1st innings. Additionally Du Plessis took two stunning catches in this match that helped to heavily swing the match in his teams favor, two catches that many lesser/other slippers may not have managed to hold on to.

When selecting a test XI one of the batsmen should be able to at least help out as a 5th bowler to either take critical wickets and be a partnership breaker or at least keep things quiet and the run rate low when they are operating. At least two of the players as well should be very good to great slip fielders who can take those game changing grabs and turn half chances into wickets. That's why players like the aforementioned Hammond, Sobers, Greg Chappell, Warne, Simpson, Kallis, McCabe, Barlow, Mitchell etc were so valuable as they brought both supplementary skills without a compromise to their primary responsibilities while contributing to teams wins and successes. Then they are the countless others who would have contributed in any one additional discipline while being uncompromising specialist/greats including batsmen, bowlers and keepers.

You're missing the point completely. Duminy isn't a bowler. He's a batsman who happens to bowl.

 

[watson]

You're missing the point completely. Duminy isn't a bowler. He's a batsman who happens to bowl.

The discussion was about whether a team needs 'batting-allrounders' or not. So kyear's point was spot on.

 

[G.I.Joe]

The discussion was about whether a team needs 'batting-allrounders' or not. So kyear's point was spot on.

Why would one have a discussion on whether a team needs batting all rounders or not? Did you guys really start off by treating as debatable the question "hey guys, there's a batsman who cannot bowl and a batsman who can bowl, which would you pick?"?

Honestly guys, if you're going to debate stuff, pick topics that aren't so mind numbingly self evident.

 

[Flem274*]

There really isn't. Which is y sometimes it comes down to nit picking and personal opinion. Top 20 fast men IMO (and in no particular order):

Marshall
Mcgrath
Imran
Waqar
Akram
Ambrose
Steyn
Donald
Trueman
Hadlee
Garner
Holding
Lindwall
Roberts
Walsh
Pollock
Fazal
Davidson
Statham
Miller/Bedser/Willis etc etc

yeah this is why i tend to not get too caught up in ranking fast bowlers and my ATG team is selected on batting prowess. while you can sift those blokes towards one end or another of the ridiculously overpowered scale, it's pretty damn hard to work who fits where exactly.

my gut feel is McGrath was number one by a tiny margin, but Marshall, Hadlee and Imran can offer me more in other areas (like a h4x tail) wiithout losing much bowling at all so they make my XI. t's also how I solve Warne vs Murali and O'Reilly.