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Your top ten TEST bowlers of ALL-TIME
- Thread starter Days of Grace
- Start date
kyear2
International Coach
For mine Malcolm was the better cricketer, no surprise there I am sure for anyone. Tired of the all rounder is automatically the better player. I look at the primary disciplines with the additional skills being a tie breaker if they are equal. Also cricket has 3 disciplines being batting, bowling and fielding so if you are going to use the all rounder argument all three would have to be top notch.
My top five
Don Bradman
Malcolm Marshall
Garry Sobers
Jack Hobbs
Adam Gilchrist
Next in line would be Sir Viv, Warne and Tendulkar with Murali and Imran not far behind.
My top 10, Bradman obviously the best batsman, Marshall the best bowler, Sobers arguably the second best batsman, best fielder and won games for his team as a opening bowler. Hobbs was the games first great Test batsman and still greatest opener and Gilchrist changed the game and was a match winner with both glove and bat.
Bradman wasn't a slam dunk for number one as I believe bowlers are more important towards winning matches and impact on a team, but Bradman was much further ahead of the next best batsman than Marshall is ahead of the next best bowler and that pretty much sealed it.
My top five
Don Bradman
Malcolm Marshall
Garry Sobers
Jack Hobbs
Adam Gilchrist
Next in line would be Sir Viv, Warne and Tendulkar with Murali and Imran not far behind.
My top 10, Bradman obviously the best batsman, Marshall the best bowler, Sobers arguably the second best batsman, best fielder and won games for his team as a opening bowler. Hobbs was the games first great Test batsman and still greatest opener and Gilchrist changed the game and was a match winner with both glove and bat.
Bradman wasn't a slam dunk for number one as I believe bowlers are more important towards winning matches and impact on a team, but Bradman was much further ahead of the next best batsman than Marshall is ahead of the next best bowler and that pretty much sealed it.
Agent Nationaux
International Coach
Why do you find it a necessity to remind everyone of your top 10 every time you make a post? We can all see your Sig.
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kyear2
International Coach
Agent Nationaux
International Coach
Not even 2 runs separate Marshall and Imran in their bowling average and yet Marshall is the better cricketer because you ignore the additional skills.
kyear2
International Coach
Barrington has an average 3 runs higher than Tendulkar and 8 runs higher than Richards does that mean that he is better far less 3 runs better. Marshall struck an over faster per wicket and was equally great home and away as a performer and match winner. There are intangibles that make Richards and Tendulkar better than Barrington, equally there are intangibles that make Marshall more than 2 runs better than Imran. Warne is only a bowler (with worse stats by the way), Hobbs and Richards only batsmen and they were all rated higher as cricketers than any all rounder other than Sobers by Wisden and many others when they were rated the cricketers of the century.
Unless you are a match winner with both disciplines then the other skill is just a tie breaker for me and I suspect many others. If you see someone as the best bowler ever and the best match winner with the ball, whats wrong with ranking him the second best cricketer ever. If starting a team from scratch he would be my first or second overall pick at worst third. Again, that is just my opinion, doesn't have to be anyone else.
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watson
Banned
This thread is entitled 'Top 10 Test Bowlers', not 'Top 10 Bowlers who could also bat a bit'.
That said, if I had to select a bowler to bowl the opposition out as cheaply as possible, then I'd choose Marshall over Imran every single time - unless the venue is Imran's home turf, then I'd probably select Imran as the better bowler. But apart from Imran's home turf it's Marshall in all other conditions as his bowling alone is still better than Imran's bowling + batting.
That said, if I had to select a bowler to bowl the opposition out as cheaply as possible, then I'd choose Marshall over Imran every single time - unless the venue is Imran's home turf, then I'd probably select Imran as the better bowler. But apart from Imran's home turf it's Marshall in all other conditions as his bowling alone is still better than Imran's bowling + batting.
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Agent Nationaux
International Coach
Marshall may be the better bowler than Imran but to claim his bowling is better than Imran's bowling and batting is extremely subjective and certainly full of bias.
watson
Banned
That's right re Marshall. People forget that he scored 10 x 50s and has a highest score of 92. Obviously Imran's skill with the bat is superior, but we are not comparing Imran with the likes of Glenn McGrath here.
kyear2
International Coach
In addition, Marshall was as good as he had to be. He generally didn't take his bating seriously unless the team was in trouble and in those conditions he generally delivered. Imran's batting also only drastically improved after his injury though he was admittedly always the better batsman. Who knows, If MM was on a weaker batting team and had to apply himself more with the bat he may have produced better numbers, but that is all conjecture and speculation.
Regardless, on the best two test teams of All Time, Marshall and Warne both proved to be more than good enough at the No. 8 batting spot. So thats good enough for me.
smash84
The Tiger King
If you had to select Imran or Marshall to bowl in NZ you would be stupid to take Marshall over Imran.
Care to explain how exactly is Marshall's bowling better than Imran's bowling+batting
?
smash84
The Tiger King
If Marshall had ***** he would be Macy.
watson
Banned
Marshall played 3 Tests in NZ and took 9 wickets at 32 (SR = 79). Imran played 4 Tests in NZ and took 17 wickets at 27 (SR = 75).If you had to select Imran or Marshall to bowl in NZ you would be stupid to take Marshall over Imran.
Care to explain how exactly is Marshall's bowling better than Imran's bowling+batting
Therefore, I don't think that there is a compelling case to prefer Imran over Marshall in NZ conditions as their stats don't seem much different to me. Also, a handful of Tests doesn't tell you much anyway. However, if NZ was a routine destination for the West Indian and Pakistan teams then I'm almost sure that their NZ stats would eventually mirror their overall figures given enough games. Why wouldn't they?
I'm not going to go into a great statistical anlaysis of Marshall and Imran because we are all familiar with their careers. However, in general: Marshall's superior bowling + inferior batting > Imran's inferior bowling + superior batting (IMO).
Having said all that, we are talking about a small overall margin. So I'm not going to build a monument to my opinion.
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smash84
The Tiger King
I thought there is only one kyear2 on this forum. At least try not to pass around your subjective opinions as facts.
I see you added IMO in this post, thankfully
Secondly why would their overall career stats (which are a combination of playing at so many different locations) mirror into every single location? That is like saying that given enough matches Sangakkara would average close to 60 everywhere.
Slifer
International Captain
Smali, I normally try to stay out of these sort of arguments but even u can realize that 3 tests away to NZ are minuscule when judging MM's ability in NZ. MM was averaging 26 up until the very last test (in which he was injured and had to sit out the next overseas tour to India).