Your choice of bowling attack for Tests and ODI's

[Arjun]

We've seen countless posts about preferred Test or ODI XI, but what would be your choice of a bowling attack for Tests and ODI's? And what would be the plan? That's a bit hard, but think about it. Go on.....

 

[Arjun]

NEW ZEALAND (ODI): Fans can suggest improvements or corrections

• Bond– Bowl fast, but close to the bat, near good length. Move the ball off the pitch marginally. Come back in the final overs and bowl yorkers, or finish a stretch when in good form.
• Franklin– Swing the ball both ways. Entice edges. Attackign fields shoudl be set.
• Cairns– Move the ball off the pitch, and use as many variations as possible.
• Oram– The team's battering ram bowler. Just ram the ball into the batsmen, making the 22 yards a firing range. Use the bouncer to good effect.
• Styris- Hold onto a steady line and length, and use a few in-cutters when needed.
• Vettori– Bowl very slowly, and use variations to good effect.

 

[ClownSymonds]

INDIA (TEST)

I Pathan
A Agarkar
H Singh
A Kumble
S Ganguly
V Sehwag

 

[Prince EWS]

NEW ZEALAND (ODI): Fans can suggest improvements or corrections

• Bond– Bowl fast, but close to the bat, near good length. Move the ball off the pitch marginally. Come back in the final overs and bowl yorkers, or finish a stretch when in good form.
• Franklin– Swing the ball both ways. Entice edges. Attackign fields shoudl be set.
• Cairns– Move the ball off the pitch, and use as many variations as possible.
• Oram– The team's battering ram bowler. Just ram the ball into the batsmen, making the 22 yards a firing range. Use the bouncer to good effect.
• Styris- Hold onto a steady line and length, and use a few in-cutters when needed.
• Vettori– Bowl very slowly, and use variations to good effect.

Im a huge Franklin fan, but theres no way he should be picked above Mills in ODIs.

 

[Armadillo]

INDIA (TEST)

I Pathan
A Agarkar
H Singh
A Kumble
S Ganguly
V Sehwag

After Agarkar's showing today I don't think he's worthy of a Zimbabwean bowling lineup. His consistent failures must show the Indian selectors that he can't perform consistently and should be replaced, for Balaji or someone. Plus an average of 46 after that many test matches tells the story really.

 

[Arjun]

After Agarkar's showing today I don't think he's worthy of a Zimbabwean bowling lineup. His consistent failures must show the Indian selectors that he can't perform consistently and should be replaced, for Balaji or someone. Plus an average of 46 after that many test matches tells the story really.

Fully agree. Lookign at Agarkar, you can guess that he'd turn cold turkey. How many world class pace attacks would have someone so small and slow? It's bad enough that he's underpowered, but he's also inconsistent, which makes him a weak link inthe bowling attack, even in ODI's. This should be the Indian bowling plan in Tests.

• VR Singh– Bowl fast. Bowl really, really fast. Attack the batsmen like a cannon. Don't give them too much room to score.
• Irfan– Swing the ball into the right-hander, as usual. Bowl a little faster than normal, if possible. Use enough variations to draw the batsmen forward and make them play.
• Munaf Patel– More or less the same as VR Singh, but try to hold a line and length (and cut out the no-balls!)
• Kumble- He doesn't need to be told what to do
• Harbhajan– Vary the pace of the ball. Sneak in a few away-going deliveries. Don't bowl the same old ball time and again.

For ODI's, more or less the same, but:

• VR Singh– Same as above. Sneak in yorkers at the end of the innings. Bowl in short spells of 3 overs.
• Irfan– Bowl an extended spell of seven overs with the first new ball and three with the second. Otherwise it's the same.
• Munaf– Cut out the no-balls! Otherwise it's the same. Don't give any width.
• RP Singh– The sticky line-and-length medium-pacer. Six balls on the spot, with movement off the pitch to be used.
• Harbhajan– Just as in Tests. Bowl for wickets, not an economy rate below five.

 

[Tomm NCCC]

England tests
I to be honest cant disagree with what the selectors say, I dont really know any other better than these lads

Harmison - Regardless what other people say, I really like him. He's agrreseive, passionate, and gives 110%. Isnt bad with the ball either

S Jones - Plagued by injuries but had a fantastic summer, He really is an awesome swinger.

Hoggard - He doesnt get as much credit as he deserves, He is a class act, unpredictable and i think you will all agree

Flintoff - A real gem, Great with the bat and handy aswell at bowling. Had a fantastic summer and i would write a description for him but, you all should know by now

Giles - Has come under some intense pressure recently but I know that he is probably the best spinner England has to offer. He gets wickets, crucial ones at that and can indeed contain runs when called upon

and I cant think of our " 6th man" We dont really have anyone like Malik or Symonds. maybe over time Plunkett will work his way into the England side and possibly become that all-rounder type that everyone including me is tipping him to be

England ODI's

All of the above, but replace Hoggard with Liam Plunkett

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

Bangladesh

Test

1 Mashrafe Mortaza
2 Tapash Baisya
3 Mohammad Rafique
4 Enamul Haque jnr
5 Aftab Ahmed, Rajin Saleh

Shahadat Hossain in for Enamul if third seamer required

ODI

1 Mashrafe Mortaza
2 Tapash Baisya
3 Syed Rasel
4 Mohammad Rafique
5 Manjural Islam Rana
6 Aftab Ahmed

 

[adharcric]

Fully agree. Lookign at Agarkar, you can guess that he'd turn cold turkey. How many world class pace attacks would have someone so small and slow? It's bad enough that he's underpowered, but he's also inconsistent, which makes him a weak link inthe bowling attack, even in ODI's. This should be the Indian bowling plan in Tests.

• VR Singh– Bowl fast. Bowl really, really fast. Attack the batsmen like a cannon. Don't give them too much room to score.
• Irfan– Swing the ball into the right-hander, as usual. Bowl a little faster than normal, if possible. Use enough variations to draw the batsmen forward and make them play.
• Munaf Patel– More or less the same as VR Singh, but try to hold a line and length (and cut out the no-balls!)
• Kumble- He doesn't need to be told what to do
• Harbhajan– Vary the pace of the ball. Sneak in a few away-going deliveries. Don't bowl the same old ball time and again.

For ODI's, more or less the same, but:

• VR Singh– Same as above. Sneak in yorkers at the end of the innings. Bowl in short spells of 3 overs.
• Irfan– Bowl an extended spell of seven overs with the first new ball and three with the second. Otherwise it's the same.
• Munaf– Cut out the no-balls! Otherwise it's the same. Don't give any width.
• RP Singh– The sticky line-and-length medium-pacer. Six balls on the spot, with movement off the pitch to be used.
• Harbhajan– Just as in Tests. Bowl for wickets, not an economy rate below five.

As usual, I fully agree with your suggestion. VR Singh, Munaf Patel and perhaps also the smaller Sreesanth can lend some genuine venom to the Indian pace battery. Pathan should be a certainty with the new ball for years to come, but he needs to gain a few yards of pace in order to become a world-class bowler who can succeed on any pitch. RP Singh has shown promise thus far and will be a good support act if he can maintain that line and length and bowl in the mid-80s (which he is capable of).

Realistically speaking, Agarkar will stay in the one-day side for some time because he has a good record there (average of 27) and manages to pick up wickets, but we all know that this figure overrates his effectiveness in one-day cricket. Agarkar certainly has no place in the test side. Zaheer Khan should be Irfan's new-ball partner in test cricket right now (instead of Agarkar), and if he has recovered some pace (mid-80s at least) he's worth one last shot in one-day cricket. Balaji and Gagandeep Singh are two good swing bowlers who should be given a shot in test cricket, but we have a greater need for genuine quicks. Ashish Nehra is one guy who I rate as a match-winning bowler because he can swing it a good deal and generate decent pace as well (high 80s) when in form. Yet, he needs to regain solid fitness to have a chance at cracking the one-day squad. Hopefully he can do that.

We need a gradual yet steady shift towards the young blood, ie VRV, Munaf, RP. Bowlers like Agarkar, Zaheer, Nehra and Balaji need to be tried out quickly and weeded out if they don't perform. Hopefully Agarkar is the first to go after his pathetic test performances lately.

 

[Jono]

My test match Indian bowling line-up is a wishful one. By that I mean it involves Pathan improving his batting even further and becoming a genuine allrounder, hence allowing India to play 5 bowlers with Pathan batting at 7. So obviously this team isn't for India presently, but perhaps in 12 months time? Maybe longer. Maybe never.

Irfan Pathan
Zaheer Kahn
RP Singh/VR Singh
Anil Kumble (Hoping he lasts long enough for Pathan to become a genuine allrounder)
Harbhajan Singh

Then the back-up/part-time bowlers would include Sehwag, Tendulkar and Yuvraj. Ganguly too if he's selected, but I imagine by the time Pathan improves his batting to genuine all-rounder status, Ganguly would be out of the test team.

 

[adharcric]

My test match Indian bowling line-up is a wishful one. By that I mean it involves Pathan improving his batting even further and becoming a genuine allrounder, hence allowing India to play 5 bowlers with Pathan batting at 7. So obviously this team isn't for India presently, but perhaps in 12 months time? Maybe longer. Maybe never.

Irfan Pathan
Zaheer Kahn
RP Singh/VR Singh
Anil Kumble (Hoping he lasts long enough for Pathan to become a genuine allrounder)
Harbhajan Singh

Then the back-up/part-time bowlers would include Sehwag, Tendulkar and Yuvraj. Ganguly too if he's selected, but I imagine by the time Pathan improves his batting to genuine all-rounder status, Ganguly would be out of the test team.

Well, it would definitely be nice to go in with 5 bowlers. A team can succeed with 4 very good bowlers. Anil Kumble is a very good bowler, I'd call him world-class. Harbhajan Singh and Irfan Pathan are a notch below world-class, they're merely "good" bowlers. Ajit Agarkar is not at all a good bowler considering he's slow, underpowered and inconsistent as a paceman. To have an acceptable attack, India needs a solid 2nd seamer who can work up the pace to compliment Pathan's style of bowling. Given that, they should have 5 bowlers to have a strong attack ... considering that even Australia was found lacking with their 4-man attack during the Ashes. Zaheer Khan is a better choice than Agarkar, but he's only a good choice if he can bowl in the mid to high 80s and take loads of wickets on a consistent basis. RP Singh and VRV Singh can both be good bowlers, but Zaheer needs to be given one last trial. VRV Singh is decent with the bat, as is Munaf Patel. A 5-man attack of Irfan, VRV, Munaf, Kumble and Harbhajan could potentially be strong both batting-wise and bowling-wise. Further into the future, Piyush Chawla could replace Anil Kumble; Chawla is a solid contributor with the bat.

 

[Arjun]

Im a huge Franklin fan, but theres no way he should be picked above Mills in ODIs.

Mills is a timebomb waiting to explode. You never know when he will bowl a series of no-balls, as he did in one match against the Proteas in the final over. Not to mention, he bowls a boundary-ball an over. Besides, Franklin is a swing bowler, so pace and swing may be a good combination, not to mention, he's a left-arm bowler, so there's some variety as well. The only reason he's missed out so often is that useless statistic known as economy rate, though he can pick up wickets at regular intervals.

 

[Arjun]

As usual, I fully agree with your suggestion. VR Singh, Munaf Patel and perhaps also the smaller Sreesanth can lend some genuine venom to the Indian pace battery. Pathan should be a certainty with the new ball for years to come, but he needs to gain a few yards of pace in order to become a world-class bowler who can succeed on any pitch. RP Singh has shown promise thus far and will be a good support act if he can maintain that line and length and bowl in the mid-80s (which he is capable of).

Realistically speaking, Agarkar will stay in the one-day side for some time because he has a good record there (average of 27) and manages to pick up wickets, but we all know that this figure overrates his effectiveness in one-day cricket. Agarkar certainly has no place in the test side. Zaheer Khan should be Irfan's new-ball partner in test cricket right now (instead of Agarkar), and if he has recovered some pace (mid-80s at least) he's worth one last shot in one-day cricket. Balaji and Gagandeep Singh are two good swing bowlers who should be given a shot in test cricket, but we have a greater need for genuine quicks. Ashish Nehra is one guy who I rate as a match-winning bowler because he can swing it a good deal and generate decent pace as well (high 80s) when in form. Yet, he needs to regain solid fitness to have a chance at cracking the one-day squad. Hopefully he can do that.

We need a gradual yet steady shift towards the young blood, ie VRV, Munaf, RP. Bowlers like Agarkar, Zaheer, Nehra and Balaji need to be tried out quickly and weeded out if they don't perform. Hopefully Agarkar is the first to go after his pathetic test performances lately.

Sreesanth may make a good reserve, but when he comes on to bowl, he should just let rip and bowl at full pace, but use it to good effect. Agarkar is probably the most over-rated ODI bowler around, and it's surprising to see him maintain an average like that without making an impact in a match. No wonder the Indians have won so few ODI tournaments when he led the attack. Anything he can do, VR Singh can do better. You mentioned Zaheer, and he should be an option in ODI's as well, when in top form. As for Piyush Chawla, he has competition in the form of Amit Mishra.

 

[Armadillo]

Bangladesh

Test

1 Mashrafe Mortaza
2 Tapash Baisya
3 Mohammad Rafique
4 Enamul Haque jnr
5 Aftab Ahmed, Rajin Saleh

Shahadat Hossain in for Enamul if third seamer required

ODI

1 Mashrafe Mortaza
2 Tapash Baisya
3 Syed Rasel
4 Mohammad Rafique
5 Manjural Islam Rana
6 Aftab Ahmed

No offence but Agarkar would fit in there quite nicely

 

[Prince EWS]

Mills is a timebomb waiting to explode. You never know when he will bowl a series of no-balls, as he did in one match against the Proteas in the final over. Not to mention, he bowls a boundary-ball an over. Besides, Franklin is a swing bowler, so pace and swing may be a good combination, not to mention, he's a left-arm bowler, so there's some variety as well. The only reason he's missed out so often is that useless statistic known as economy rate, though he can pick up wickets at regular intervals.

Useless statistic? We arent talking about tests here...

Not only is his economy high, but his average is also quite high. Players can get away with a high economy rate if they take wickets at a low average, because they can play a different role, but Franklin averages 38.91 with an economy of 5.27. Thats basically means he is generally going for 10-X-53-1. Not good enough at all.

 

[Jono]

Arjun, there is no way in hell Franklin is a better ODI bowler than Mills. And a statement like economy rates being a useless statistic makes your argument really quite ridiculous. 0-35 from 10 overs is a lot better than 3-70 from 10 in limited overs cricket.

Obviously wickets have a place in ODI cricket (you're like the opposite to Richard, who believes economy rate is the only factor that matters) but when a bowler has such a high economy rate like Franklin, his wickets are relatively meaningless. As Prince said, because the runs he avareages per wicket is too high.

 

[Arjun]

Arjun, there is no way in hell Franklin is a better ODI bowler than Mills. And a statement like economy rates being a useless statistic makes your argument really quite ridiculous. 0-35 from 10 overs is a lot better than 3-70 from 10 in limited overs cricket.

Obviously wickets have a place in ODI cricket (you're like the opposite to Richard, who believes economy rate is the only factor that matters) but when a bowler has such a high economy rate like Franklin, his wickets are relatively meaningless. As Prince said, because the runs he avareages per wicket is too high.

There is only one statistic that counts– average. Even if one bowler is going at an economy rate of four, he's not of much use when he dosn't take wickets. The key batsmen are at the crease still stay adn make big scores. On the other hand, if a bowler has a good strike rate, it does not matter how many runs he gives away, as long as half the side is out. That said, Franklin's (as also Balaji's) ODI figures don't look good.

 

[Prince EWS]

There is only one statistic that counts– average. Even if one bowler is going at an economy rate of four, he's not of much use when he dosn't take wickets.

Youve gone to the other extreme to what Richard did.

There are places for both bowlers that attack and attempt to take wickets, and bowlers that bowl tight and keep the runs down in ODIs. These different styles of bowlers can bowl at different times and give the captain more options.

Anyway, if average is the only thing that counts, then how does Franklin (38.91) get in the side over Mills (30.25)?

 

[Arjun]

Youve gone to the other extreme to what Richard did.

There are places for both bowlers that attack and attempt to take wickets, and bowlers that bowl tight and keep the runs down in ODIs. These different styles of bowlers can bowl at different times and give the captain more options.

Anyway, if average is the only thing that counts, then how does Franklin (38.91) get in the side over Mills (30.25)?

The only eceonomy rate that counts is one below three. That way, wickets will come automatically. Thus, you get an average, which is basically a combination of strike rate and average.

Franklin is not a regular in ODI's, but Mills is a lottery bowler, like Agarkar. Hmmm......Tuffey's recall on the cards? Or play a bowler less and have Cairns or Oram opening the bowling?

 

[Prince EWS]

The only eceonomy rate that counts is one below three. That way, wickets will come automatically. Thus, you get an average, which is basically a combination of strike rate and average.

Its not all about taking wickets.

but Mills is a lottery bowler, like Agarkar.

Have you seen Mills bowl at all recently?