Would you play Keith Miller in your Australia ATG XI?

[kyear2]

If India get Bumrah and NZ get Bond, Tyson should definitely be in the mix for England.

I agree.

Want every team to be as strong as possible.

 

[kyear2]

We should be picking Mitchell Johnson then.

Why?

They get selected based on the totality of their career.

You then choose the player at their respective peaks.

 

[Prince EWS]

Why?

They get selected based on the totality of their career.

You then choose the player at their respective peaks.

So you select players based on a totally different criteria to what you actually get in your imaginary games for some reason?

This is just getting silly.

 

[kyear2]

And yet the West Indies AT XI would easily have 3/4 of their team from the same 25 year period. Greenidge, Richards, Lara, Marshall, Ambrose, Garner (or whoever is your third quick) all played most of their careers between 75 and 00.

Was speaking with regards to the World XI where there are multiple options from different eras.

But in this instance, are you trusting the era of the 80's or mid 20's?

I'm not telling anyone who to choose, but Sutcliffe is an interesting case. Any one ever wondered why, even when he outscored Hobbs he was never seen as his equal? Even when the freta pre war batsmen are discussed it's the 3 HHH's?

And Hutton works better as an opener than as a rest no. 3.

But as I said then, it's just my opinion.

 

[Coronis]

So you select players based on a totally different criteria to what you actually get in your imaginary games for some reason?

This is just getting silly.

Shocker

 

[ataraxia]

Richards
Mitchell*
Kallis
Nourse
Pollock
de Villiers +
Faulkner
Pollock
van der Bijl
Tayfield
Steyn

Reject modernity. Embrace tradition.

 

[kyear2]

So you select players based on a totally different criteria to what you actually get in your imaginary games for some reason?

This is just getting silly.

How is it different?

And how are u doing it? Just random versions or based on average?

Botham was hardly ever at his average, he was way better or way worse.

Ponting for most of his career was a beast before the precipitous drop at the end.

When Cricinfo were doing their all time exercises, there were a couple of articles that informed my decisions on these things.


Like what other version other than their best would be selecting them?

 

[kyear2]

Shocker

You can't help yourself can you.

 

[subshakerz]

You pick these guys at their peaks.

You go to '79 and pick Viv. You're not getting fat Botham

Then I would argue Gooch should be in the XI based on peak.

 

[subshakerz]

Why?

They get selected based on the totality of their career.

You then choose the player at their respective peaks.

Why do we assume they are playing at their peak when they are selected on overall career output? We should assume their performance in the XI reflects their overall output otherwise it renders the selection criteria meaningless.

If we assume peak, then Pak ATG XI with Imran, Wasim and Waqar is easily the best pace attack of them all. But realistically I rate WI better based on their overall careers.

 

[Coronis]

You can't help yourself can you.

Says the guy who would rise to snap hungrily at a flea after eating a full steak dinner and dessert.

 

[Bolo.]

This is why that doesn't work. If he's bowling more than the 6 or so overs that Sobers is contributing per innings, it's taking away from the front line guys, who one can argue are just that little bit better. And again at the expense of the batting.

The most you can argue is keeping them fresher, but all of these guys can bowl long spells and Warne is holding down an end. Not to mention how Miller would feel about bowling the dog overs.

I'm not saying your way is wrong, just wouldn't be my take on it. Giving up a big batting disadvantage at 6.

Think of it this way. Would anyone advocate for moving Sobers to 5 and batting Miller at 6 for the World XI? Just let Garry bat and stand at 2nd. It's the same exact scenario, and the arguments are the same. The batting here is even stronger to support it, Sachin at 4 and Garry at 5? But it doesn't quite make sense does it?

He's not going to bowl enough (not that he can't, he just wouldn't) to make the sacrifice worth it.

You often see meh bowlers outbowling ones who are tiers above them in spells or games. A great bowler like Miller is going to be outbowling whichever other bowler is doing the worst at the time of plenty often. The fact that he is the worst bowler doesn't mean everyone is always better than him. There is form/rythm, fitness, conditions, and how adept bats are at handling particular bowlers. The later factors are particularly true for Warne.

 

[Coronis]

You often see meh bowlers outbowling ones who are tiers above them in spells or games. A great bowler like Miller is going to be outbowling whichever other bowler is doing the worst at the time of plenty often. The fact that he is the worst bowler doesn't mean everyone is always better than him. There is form/rythm, fitness, conditions, and how adept bats are at handling particular bowlers. The later factors are particularly true for Warne.

iirc Beau Webster has outbowled Nathan Lyon in every single innings they’ve played together

 

[JBMAC]

Richards
Mitchell*
Kallis
Nourse
Pollock
de Villiers +
Faulkner
Pollock
van der Bijl
Tayfield
Steyn

Reject modernity. Embrace tradition.

How about finding places for Garth LeRoux and Clive Rice?

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Why do we assume they are playing at their peak when they are selected on overall career output? We should assume their performance in the XI reflects their overall output otherwise it renders the selection criteria meaningless.

If we assume peak, then Pak ATG XI with Imran, Wasim and Waqar is easily the best pace attack of them all. But realistically I rate WI better based on their overall careers.

Was about to say this. Pakistan benefits the most by this scenario by far. Imagine facing Waqar and Imran, the 2 best bowlers ever. And then you have the greatest left arm quick ever to complement. If that’s not enough you have Shoaib. Good luck to anyone facing this bowling attack with all 4 at their peak.

 

[Qlder]

Well this is embarrassing for some. Keith Miller was just voted the 3rd best allrounder ever in the CW allrounder poll, but some people here don't even have him making the Australian XI

 

[Coronis]

Well this is embarrassing for some. Keith Miller was just voted the 3rd best allrounder ever in the CW allrounder poll, but some people here don't even have him making the Australian XI

Not sure how that’s embarrassing.