World wicket keepers, your rankings.

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

when dravid hits 400* against the most inform bowling attack of the time then he shall b better then lara...the guy runs the show with the bat, and he talks on his mobile from slip...hes a true legend

Had Dravid been in the same situation on the same pitch, I have no doubt he would have done it. Dravid's capabilities and ability to perform under pressure shouldn't be discredited.

 

[Scallywag]

But Dravid's much more likely to actually be there at the end of play, and he's an excellent strokemaker when settled.

But he wont make any more runs than Ponting and Lara, he just will take longer to score them.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I think people get caught up in the aura of Brian Lara at times. Lara is a great batsman. There's no doubt about that, but people have a tendency to think that certain players are untouchables - immortals in the world of men. It's the same way that some people find it hard to believe that present day sportsmen and women could possibly be comparable on a level of greatness with those of the past. Many refuse to believe that a player still playing can be described as great.

Rahul Dravid is a superb and superbly accomplished batsman. He hasn't broken any individual batting records yet, but he hasn't had the opportunity to. Several great players have not had a taste of any world record to speak of.

I don't see any reason to slight Dravid his due. He doesn't have the same aura of greatness as Lara, but performs on a level that that should not matter.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

But he wont make any more runs than Ponting and Lara, he just will take longer to score them.

Think of it in context though...

With Tendulkar and Sehwag in the team, if they score runs, they're likely to score them at a rate such that Dravid wouldn't have to score fast. In such cases Dravid can play the anchor role.

If Tendulkar and Sehwag fail, you certainly can't fault Dravid for playing relatively slowly to ensure that he gets a good score for the team.

Dravid has shown that he can elevate the scoring rate and, had he been in a weaker batting side, he may have expressed that fact more often.

 

[tooextracool]

If player A and player B have similar overall records but:

1. player A converts his starts into bigger scores;

2. player A scores at a substantially higher rate;

3. unlike Player B, Player A has succeded consistently against the world's best;

4. unlike Player B (who is more consistent - dare I utter the letters "FTB"), player A saves himself for the bigger occasions; and

4. unlike Player B, Player A has played some of the greatest test innings in test history,

then give me player A (Lara) every time.

and if player B scores against prolifically against every country, has never had a poor year, has scored prolifically in every country and is more consistent then give me player B over player A any day of the week.
and claim 4 is an absolute disgraceful, given that dravid could outperform lara on any seeamer friendly wicket anywhere in the world. and if you think that dravid hasnt played any great innings, then you obviously just turned off the television when he scored that 180 against australia in eden gardens.
and how many times must it be said? scoring faster doesnt really make a player better in test match cricket. id much rather have a player who bats till the end of the day and scores the same amount of runs than someone who gets out quicker despite scoring the same amount of runs.

 

[tooextracool]

Dravid scores 42 runs for each 100 balls he faces compared to 58 and 60 Ponting and Lara. So in a days play Ponting and Lara will score 45-50 more runs than Dravid.

and also get out 100 balls earlier, and are far less likely to form a longer partnership or save a game.

 

[tooextracool]

come off it! lara is the best batsmen of our era...followed by tendulkar

because of what exactly?
what has dravid not done that he shouldnt be classed as highly as lara?

 

[tooextracool]

But he wont make any more runs than Ponting and Lara, he just will take longer to score them.

yet hes scoring them against all opposition, and isnt disgracing himself in any country(aka ponting).
and if you had to save a game, who would you rather have? someone who bats for a longer period of time or someone who scores quicker? it works both ways.

 

[tooextracool]

I think people get caught up in the aura of Brian Lara at times. Lara is a great batsman. There's no doubt about that, but people have a tendency to think that certain players are untouchables - immortals in the world of men. It's the same way that some people find it hard to believe that present day sportsmen and women could possibly be comparable on a level of greatness with those of the past. Many refuse to believe that a player still playing can be described as great.

Rahul Dravid is a superb and superbly accomplished batsman. He hasn't broken any individual batting records yet, but he hasn't had the opportunity to. Several great players have not had a taste of any world record to speak of.

I don't see any reason to slight Dravid his due. He doesn't have the same aura of greatness as Lara, but performs on a level that that should not matter.

couldnt have put it better myself. dravid, like most non-aggressive players is simply underrated because of the fact that he doesnt tear bowling attacks apart and unlike lara and tendulkar, doesnt attract crowds of people to watch him bat.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

because of what exactly?
what has dravid not done that he shouldnt be classed as highly as lara?

Well to be fair Lara has accomplished more to this point. When Dravid reaches the stage of his career Lara is at, then things may change in terms of representation of an era.

 

[tooextracool]

Well to be fair Lara has accomplished more to this point. When Dravid reaches the stage of his career Lara is at, then things may change in terms of representation of an era.

depends on what you count as more. certainly dravid has already accomplished most of the significant things that lara has already in his career and more. hes scored all over the world and hes scored on all types of wickets. more importantly hes been more consistent. unless he completely ruins his career from now, theres no doubt in my mind that he'll go down amongst the top 10-15 test batsmen ever.

 

[Top_Cat]

because of what exactly?
what has dravid not done that he shouldnt be classed as highly as lara?

Couple of world records come readily to mind.

That said, on performance (rather than raw talent; I guess Lara just has that 'genius' look about him whereas Dravid doesn't to the same extent), Dravid deserves to be rated as highly as Lara and Sachin as the very best players of their era. All three could probably be relied upon to be greats in any era.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

depends on what you count as more. certainly dravid has already accomplished most of the significant things that lara has already in his career and more. hes scored all over the world and hes scored on all types of wickets. more importantly hes been more consistent. unless he completely ruins his career from now, theres no doubt in my mind that he'll go down amongst the top 10-15 test batsmen ever.

Granted to an extent, except that Lara has scored in varying conditions too. Lara has matched Dravid quite well over the last 3 years or so though, so it would be an interesting comparison overall.

 

[tooextracool]

Granted to an extent, except that Lara has scored in varying conditions too. Lara has matched Dravid quite well over the last 3 years or so though, so it would be an interesting comparison overall.

lara has indeed done alot over the last 3 years. had he played in the same vein that he has recently for a large part of his career, theres no doubt in my mind that he'd be BETTER than dravid. but he still has the blemishes of that 5 year fall from greatness, and his record against both pakistan and india still stands down as ordinary.

 

[tooextracool]

Couple of world records come readily to mind.

that isnt really that significant. ive never really cared much about the 400s and the 375s; the best record you can possibly have is being there when your team needs you the most, and both lara and dravid have done that time and time again.
for all we know, mark taylor might have beaten the world record himself, had he chosen to bat on, but then again would that have changed how he was rated as a player?

 

[social]

and if player B scores against prolifically against every country, has never had a poor year, has scored prolifically in every country and is more consistent then give me player B over player A any day of the week.
and claim 4 is an absolute disgraceful, given that dravid could outperform lara on any seeamer friendly wicket anywhere in the world. and if you think that dravid hasnt played any great innings, then you obviously just turned off the television when he scored that 180 against australia in eden gardens.
and how many times must it be said? scoring faster doesnt really make a player better in test match cricket. id much rather have a player who bats till the end of the day and scores the same amount of runs than someone who gets out quicker despite scoring the same amount of runs.

Would you care to explain why Dravid has a relatively poor record against McGrath and Warne.

As for his 180, to quote an Australian expression, "he scratched around like an old chook" for well over 120 runs of his eventual total and should have been out several times before 50. It was a major contributor to a great Indian result BUT he rode his luck and it was hardly a great innings.

Your claim as to his proficiency on seaming wickets is equally without merit. He has NEVER encountered anything other than batsmens' paradises in Australia and FAILED when faced with seaming conditions in NZ.

And FYI, scoring the same amount of runs at a faster pace gives your bowlers more time to bowl the opposition out.

At present, he is a magnificent player but he can be contained, is ordinary between the wickets, and has been worked out by McGrath. Hardly the stuff of legends when you think about it.

 

[Deja moo]

Glen McGrath has got Dravid how many times ? 4? You're basing it all on that ? And what poor record vs Warne ?

As for seaming wickets, think Headingley.

 

[social]

Glen McGrath has got Dravid how many times ? 4? You're basing it all on that ? And what poor record vs Warne ?

As for seaming wickets, think Headingley.

He's never played at Headingley in a test match, so what's your point?

 

[Dasa]

Would you care to explain why Dravid has a relatively poor record against McGrath and Warne.

Not really poor. These are Dravid's scores in matches where one of McGrath and Warne have played:
40
52, 56 (no McGrath)
86 (no McGrath)
23, 6 (no McGrath)
35, 6
9, 14
29, 0
9, 39
25, 180
81, 4
0, 60
26
21, 2
31*, 27 (no Warne)

That adds up to 861 runs at an average of 35.86. Not upto his usual standards, but not that poor. Certainly better than many batsmen against McGrath and Warne.

As for his 180, to quote an Australian expression, "he scratched around like an old chook" for well over 120 runs of his eventual total and should have been out several times before 50. It was a major contributor to a great Indian result BUT he rode his luck and it was hardly a great innings.

I watched every ball of that innings and I certainly don't remember it being as bad as you say.

Your claim as to his proficiency on seaming wickets is equally without merit. He has NEVER encountered anything other than batsmens' paradises in Australia and FAILED when faced with seaming conditions in NZ.

Failed? Dravid averaged 32.75 in that series... in comparison, Tendulkar averaged 25. The only batsman to average more than Dravid in that series was Richardson who averaged 48. Hardly a failure.

And FYI, scoring the same amount of runs at a faster pace gives your bowlers more time to bowl the opposition out.

It's a Test match. The pace of scoring shouldn't, and usually doesn't matter THAT much. It can sometimes work the other way. Adelaide 03/04?

 

[Dasa]

He's never played at Headingley in a test match, so what's your point?

He certainly has. Made 148 and MoM too.