World Class list

[Cevno]

WI preferred the attack the body bowlers it suited their playing style for a swing bowler too get in you needed to be extra special like Imran,Hadlee or even younger Botham.

Batting would easily get him in but it is not even a point of discussion here.

Kapil always had a very good record in west indies.

And overall though his average may suggest it basically due to no support and amount of bowling he had to do on spinning tracks ,he wasn't much inferior to the other 3 you mentioned,perhaps except Hadlee.

 

[smash84]

Yeah Kapil would get into the WI side for his batting while being a swing bowler IMO

 

[morgieb]

Marshall's and Lillee's careers didn't really clash - Lillee would still have comfortably made their side.

Kapil's a more interesting call.

 

[Xuhaib]

Kapil always had a very good record in west indies.

And overall though his average may suggest it basically due to no support and amount of bowling he had to do on spinning tracks ,he wasn't much inferior to the other 3 you mentioned,perhaps except Hadlee.

nah a difference in average of 6-7 runs is quite huge when you get at this level support argument is debatable Andy Flower did not have much support throughout yet he averaged more then 50 does that make him the best batsman of his generation?

 

[Xuhaib]

Yeah Kapil would get into the WI side for his batting while being a swing bowler IMO

again batting is not being discussed

As a package i no doubt agree Kapil >Roberts,Holding,Garner but as bowlers he is inferior to all 3.

 

[Furball]

So is the new definition that one needs to be able to get into all but one side to be deemed world class?

No. The fact that Australia probably wouldn't have taken Murali when Warne was still playing doesn't mean Murali wasn't world class.

 

[morgieb]

What if someone would make every side other than their own? Like say MacGill, or a million Australian batsman in recent years. I know that wouldn't count them as world-class, but it's still an interesting point.

 

[Cevno]

No. The fact that Australia probably wouldn't have taken Murali when Warne was still playing doesn't mean Murali wasn't world class.

I think Australia would have taken both.

As would have Srilanka.

 

[Cevno]

What if someone would make every side other than their own? Like say MacGill, or a million Australian batsman in recent years. I know that wouldn't count them as world-class, but it's still an interesting point.

Macgill wouldn't have made the Indian side ahead of Kumble.

 

[vcs]

I'm inclined to think we would, tbh. He might not make the first XI, but we selected Harmison as recently as the 5th Ashes test in 2009 and Johnson's a similar performer (in terms of ouput not style) in that he's all boom and bust.

I think he'd make the squad and perhaps be a "horses for courses" pick on grounds like Perth, Headlingley and (maybe) Trent Bridge where conditions would (in theory) suit.

&, unrelated to the above, Prior's the best keeper/batsman in the world now Sanga's given the gloves away. Cases can be made for Dhoni's and Haddin's batting (ftr I'd probably take Haddin's batting myself), but his keeping is much sounder than either. Dhoni being the captain of his side muddies the waters and, tbh, I don't much rate his captaincy either. Sets ODI fields too often in tests.

Interesting idea tho, kudos PEWS.

Prior's gone from looking totally flat-footed to having excellent footwork and taking blinders while keeping to pace. Dhoni's footwork while keeping to pace lets him down at times, but I feel he'd be better at keeping to spin. He certainly gets much more practice at it than most other keepers.

 

[Burgey]

He'd have comfortably got into every other side though - the West Indies having freakishly great fast bowling stocks wouldn't have changed that.

If Lloyd or Richards had any say in it, Lillee would have walked into the WI sides of his era.

 

[morgieb]

I think Australia would have taken both.

As would have Srilanka.

Sri Lanka would have, not convinced about Australia. There's a lot of circumstances when you'd only pick 1 spinner in Australia, and Murali's record here is pretty damn awful, even though he's better than anyone here during his time except for possibly McGrath and Warne.

 

[morgieb]

Macgill wouldn't have made the Indian side ahead of Kumble.

Yeah, India's more questionable because he wasn't better than Kumble and they'd probably pick another offie instead of MacGill.

Would've made any other country however, unless Sri Lanka were playing on greentops.

 

[Cevno]

nah a difference in average of 6-7 runs is quite huge when you get at this level support argument is debatable Andy Flower did not have much support throughout yet he averaged more then 50 does that make him the best batsman of his generation?

Kapil had to open the bowling with gavaskar once.

He acted most of his career as a support bowler to spinners after the inital burst.
He also had to bowl on Indian tracks which had no real help for quicker bowlers.
His average also dropped like with Botham ,due to playing a few years too long.

I am not saying he was better than Imran or hadlee ,but the difference between them and Kapil and Botham was not as much as the averages suggest.

 

[Eds]

Surely the real definition of World Class would be that you could justifiably put them in the World XI Squad?

 

[Furball]

I think Australia would have taken both.

As would have Srilanka.

Australia wouldn't. Look how little Warne and MacGill played together.

 

[morgieb]

Australia wouldn't. Look how little Warne and MacGill played together.

Yeah, but we tended not to bowl 2 leggies at the same time. I think it might be different with leggies. Plus Murali >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MacGill.

 

[Burgey]

Surely the real definition of World Class would be that you could justifiably put them in the World XI Squad?

Wouldn't it be that you are capable of consistently performing at a high standard against the best in the world? So, for example, Mark Taylor may not have made every team he played against, but he was plainly capable of performing well against the best bowlers of his era.

But still, the thread isn't a definition debate

 

[Cevno]

nah a difference in average of 6-7 runs is quite huge when you get at this level support argument is debatable Andy Flower did not have much support throughout yet he averaged more then 50 does that make him the best batsman of his generation?

And as for Andy Flower he had decent support at Zimbabwe when he was playing. Certainly decent if not great support.

 

[Uppercut]

Australia wouldn't. Look how little Warne and MacGill played together.

Nah, they'd pick both. Stop being silly. He's ****ing Murali.