Wisden's Cricketers of the Century

[Swervy]

Well back in 70s if you would have said that an Indian fast bowler will be the highest wicket taker in test cricket, you would have been laughed at as well, so these analogies dont really work.

I still laugh at the fact that Kapil dev got as many wickets as he did

 

[aussie_beater]

1) He has played 3 series in India.
2) The first was his debut series.

Wrong. His debut series was in Australia and not in India. It was against India and he was smashed around by the likes of Ravi Shastri and Sachin as well.

3) The second was just before his shoulder injury – which he was already feeling after the marathon summer.

Just one month before coming to India in that series in 1998, Warne was good enough to be the highest wicket taker(20 wickets) versus South Africa. So save the excuses.

 

[aussie_beater]

I still laugh at the fact that Kapil dev got as many wickets as he did

And why is that ?

 

[Sanz]

It's not just that - you underestimate the impact on World Cricket that Warne has had - it's not just one ball.

You will have to define your definition of World for me. I hope it does not start at England and end there. Because I have not seen Warnie's impact in India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, zimbabwe, Sri Lanka, West Indies, Bangladesh, South Africa etc. etc.

PS :- I am not saying that Warnie is not a great bowler or something, But just that he has inspired a couple of people to take up leg spin, isn't good enough reason for me to be included in top 5 cricketers of the Century.

 

[chicane]

you may think that..but whether you are correct is another matter..

Same goes for you. Now, lemme just make myself understood.

Warnes presence in a match means more to the opposition than anyone of those players you have listed...Slater...come on now..good player, but if you honestly think he has contributed more to world cricket than Warne, you dont know what you are talking about.

I was referring to Slater because I thought he was one of the players who 'revolutionized' the way test cricket is played.

it was actually Sanz who originally said that Warne was the only decent leggie of the last 15 years...i should have put quotes around it when i said it.Kumble is a decent bowler,but he never has been and never will be even close to Warne...the fact you cannot remember any other 'decent' leggies suggests something doesnt it

I'm not comparing Kumble to Warne! I was just saying that he is definitely decent. And no the fact that I can't remember doesn't mean anything. I don't look at stats and history too much. My knowledge is mostly limited to the post 90's.

and what effect is that...Imran Khan was more of a pioneer in terms of fast bowling than Akram...and where does Dev really come into it when we are talking about the greatest bowlers of all time

Yes Imran was the pioneer but Wasim had greater influence. I'm sure Akram is more well known than Imran here. And I cited Dev's example as someone who influenced fast bowling in India.

 

[Swervy]

Sorry mate, IMO Australian dominance actually started from 1999 and not 1992. To give Warnie credit for this will be unfair to Mark Taylor and Other Australian Cricketers. And that more results are coming into the test is not because Warnie discovered any magic or smomething but because of the aggresive batting of Australian batsmen who are scoring loads of runs that too at a faster rate and thus giving their bowlers more time to take wickets. I dont give Credit to Warnie for this. Although I feel that he has played a very important role in all this.

and heres me thinking Australia have been number one in the world since 94...how wrong i must be.

as a batsman , you are given license to be more aggressive when you know you have the bowlers to bak you up if it goes a bit pear shaped.

I am not giving Warne all the credit, but he deserves one hell of a chunk of it

 

[chicane]

I still laugh at the fact that Kapil dev got as many wickets as he did

Why? Let me in on the joke too.

 

[Swervy]

I'm not comparing Kumble to Warne! I was just saying that he is definitely decent. And no the fact that I can't remember doesn't mean anything. I don't look at stats and history too much. My knowledge is mostly limited to the post 90's.

.

limited to post 90's...so thats from 2000 to now...so infact you werent aware of the impact of Warne in his prime. Here is a tip...try and get some knowledge of the history of the game..it will strengthen your discussions no end.

 

[chicane]

limited to post 90's...so thats from 2000 to now...so infact you werent aware of the impact of Warne in his prime. Here is a tip...try and get some knowledge of the history of the game..it will strengthen your discussions no end.

I meant post 1990. Thanks and no thanks.

 

[a massive zebra]

and heres me thinking Australia have been number one in the world since 94...how wrong i must be.

as a batsman , you are given license to be more aggressive when you know you have the bowlers to bak you up if it goes a bit pear shaped.

I am not giving Warne all the credit, but he deserves one hell of a chunk of it

McGrath has been Australia's best bowler since 1997/98 so he deserves as much credit for giving 'the batsmen license to be more aggressive when you know you have the bowlers to bak you up if it goes a bit pear shaped'. They have only been truely dominant since 1999 and he has been Australia's best bowler throughout that time. He has been successful against the opponents best players while Warne has often really struggled against the very best (ie Tendulkar and Lara).

That is not to say Warne does not deserve any credit and has not been important, because without him the attack would have been rather toothless when McGrath was rested, but he does not deserve as much credit as you make out.

 

[tooextracool]

what is with all these posts and inspiring players?you dont get to be on the wisden top 5 players list just because you inspired people.....1st and foremost you need to be a great player. so what is with all this abdul qadir and anil kumble gibberish? if it were rated purely on how much a player has inspired others then surely tendulkar would be on that list but clearly wisden hasnt done that.
to make that list not only do you need to have great stats, but you also need to be a match winner,a difference maker,an inspirer with perhaps a little bit of charisma as well.
as far as murali not making the list is concerned, murali had not done enough yet in 2000 to make it to the all time list, while warne had already accomplished a lot within that span to already be considered a legend.
and as far as richards not deserving to be on the list is concerned, just ask any bowler in the 80s whether he should or should not be in that list!

 

[Tom Halsey]

If warnie has inspired so many kids in England and Australia, then where are they ??

They are coming through right now, as it happens. I play for Essex U15 as a leggie, and there are plenty of others around in the junior county games. He didn’t only save leg-spin, but off-spin in the non-Asian countries too.

 

[Sanz]

and heres me thinking Australia have been number one in the world since 94...how wrong i must be.

as a batsman , you are given license to be more aggressive when you know you have the bowlers to bak you up if it goes a bit pear shaped.

I am not giving Warne all the credit, but he deserves one hell of a chunk of it

Well since Warnie has made his debut, Australia has won 84 test and out of those 84 wins 46 have come since 1999, they have lost only 10 and drawn only 7. Now compare this to 1992-1998 , Aus have won 38, Lost 19, Drew 21. Now compare those winning %ge and tell us if Warnie's presense in this team (post 1999) really makes any difference.

 

[tooextracool]

Well since Warnie has made his debut, Australia has won 84 test and out of those 84 wins 46 have come since 1999, they have lost only 10 and drawn only 7. Now compare this to 1992-1998 , Aus have won 38, Lost 19, Drew 21. Now compare those winning %ge and tell us if Warnie's presense in this team (post 1999) really makes any difference.

precisely why the aussies got hammered against india and then whitewashed SL in SL

 

[a massive zebra]

Well since Warnie has made his debut, Australia has won 84 test and out of those 84 wins 46 have come since 1999, they have lost only 10 and drawn only 7. Now compare this to 1992-1998 , Aus have won 38, Lost 19, Drew 21. Now compare those winning %ge and tell us if Warnie's presense in this team (post 1999) really makes any difference.

And Warne actually performed better when Australia were less successful! Pre-99.

 

[tooextracool]

And Warne actually performed better when Australia were less successful! Pre-99.

and perhaps the same thing can be said about SR tendulkar.

 

[aussie_beater]

it was actually Sanz who originally said that Warne was the only decent leggie of the last 15 years...i should have put quotes around it when i said it.Kumble is a decent bowler,but he never has been and never will be even close to Warne...the fact you cannot remember any other 'decent' leggies suggests something doesnt it

Anil Kumble and Mushtaq Ahmed have played most of their cricket in the last 15 years and there is no way you can't call them decent leggies.Yes Kumble is an unconventional leggie but he is still a leggie nonetheless, and IMO Mushtaq in his prime was a brilliant leggie.

 

[Langeveldt]

They are coming through right now, as it happens. I play for Essex U15 as a leggie, and there are plenty of others around in the junior county games. He didn’t only save leg-spin, but off-spin in the non-Asian countries too.

Ive been bowling leggies for a good few years.. Albeit with some interuption and action problems etc...

Who inspired me?? You would never ever guess but SCG MacGill

 

[a massive zebra]

and perhaps the same thing can be said about SR tendulkar.

And.....

 

[Sanz]

precisely why the aussies got hammered against india and then whitewashed SL in SL

Are you telling me that Warnie never played against Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka before this series ?? And I am just curious to know How many people actually think that India hammed warne-less Australia . Add to the fact the he was bowling to the weakest Sri Lankan Batting line up in last 20 years and their batting is only 3rd from last after Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

AFAIK, aussies have got bigger beating in 1997,1998 & 2001 with warnie in the team.