Wisden on Murali's Action

[honestbharani]

How are these the same? It would be nice to get both points of view regarding whether he used to chuck or not. I have never really got proper view points on this.

If you get the shot next to the one you have shown with the cameras attached, you would see he has a natural bend in his elbow. These are not the same. The test with the cameras was done to show that Murali was flexing it only by the same degrees..


And I am bloody sure some of the geniuses posting here that his action was dodgy also had no idea that bowling with a bent arm was not illegal even by the oldest bowling laws. It was always about straightening a bent arm or bending a straight arm. Murali happened to start with a bent arm and as I said earlier, it became very easy to disagree with facts.

 

[honestbharani]

Would request people to try and bowl the doosra yourself. Except the carrom ball one, isn't it impossible to do it without chucking? When I used to bowl offies (was a leg spinner ftr), could bowl the straight one but to go the other way - could never imagine it being bowled without chucking it.

Do you have a congenital bent bowling arm?

 

[honestbharani]

Are you not reading stuff I am posting?

As I said earlier, disagreeing with facts is just soooo easy..

 

[Pratters]

Do you have a congenital bent bowling arm?

There are others who bowl it firstly.

Secondly Shoaib's hyper extension has long been used to justify chucking (squashed in the video). Even with the bent arm, just doesn't seem fathomable to me.

 

[Pratters]

As I said earlier, disagreeing with facts is just soooo easy..

Don't believe every thing you read blindly.

 

[honestbharani]

There are others who bowl it firstly.

Secondly Shoaib's hyper extension has long been used to justify chucking (squashed in the video). Even with the bent arm, just doesn't seem fathomable to me.

I thought we were talking about Murali's doosra here.. And btw, he bowls it very differently to the likes of Saqlain and Ajmal. Watch his release of the doosra. The ball comes out of the inside of his palm to the outside.. Totally doable if you start with a bent arm, although it is very difficult to do it within the prescribed flexion angles if do not have a naturally bent arm like Murali's. Which is basically what he admitted in the very article posted in the OP. And FWIW, I am not trusting anything blindly. From 1994 to 2006, I followed , read up on the saga closely enough. I have a friend who works in one of the ICC accredited centres to measure flexion and chucking as well. Just because it is not fathomable to you does not mean it is not possible or true.

 

[Pratters]

My comment was in response to comment that disagreeing to facts is easy.

What about the remarks made by Gilchrist and his bio mechanic and Holding? They are not people who don't know laws or chucking. Even Bedi for all his senility is not mad. These are former cricketers of knowledge telling you he chucks and it's just discounted because he bowled some deliveries in a test. The test is not match situation. It's better to dissect those videos to try and understand as much as possible.

 

[Pratters]

Also I would really like a proper discussion on this. It's an important topic which had plagued cricket for far too long. As much as possible, to get more knowledge on it.

 

[Pratters]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2shrhaOWlQ Simon Hughes compares Murali's bowling with and without the brace.

 

[harsh.ag]

Before going any further, tell me why you do not trust the ICC's testing? A proper answer. Not a conspiracy theory.

 

[Pratters]

Before going any further, tell me why you do not trust the ICC's testing? A proper answer. Not a conspiracy theory.

I don't trust ICC allowing 15 degrees for the eye visibility aspect. Sri Lanka was firm behind Murali. It would mean a strain in cricketing relations world over. At that point of time, there weren't the big 3. It was equal votes in ICC. I actually respect Murali for his humbleness. He is a great ambassador as well. That's unrelated to whether he actually chucks or not.

 

[Coronis]

I don't trust ICC allowing 15 degrees for the eye visibility aspect.

Ah, so you agree that almost every test bowler is a chucker?

 

[harsh.ag]

I don't trust ICC allowing 15 degrees for the eye visibility aspect. Sri Lanka was firm behind Murali. It would mean a strain in cricketing relations world over. At that point of time, there weren't the big 3. It was equal votes in ICC. I actually respect Murali for his humbleness. He is a great ambassador as well. That's unrelated to whether he actually chucks or not.

Okay. Second question, why don't you trust the credibility of scientists at University of Western Australia?

 

[Pratters]

Ah, so you agree that almost every test bowler is a chucker?

I would love to see which bowler came to which degree actually.

 

[Pratters]

Okay. Second question, why don't you trust the credibility of scientists at University of Western Australia?

I haven't said I don't. What can we derive from the findings of WA scientists? Question - Did they give us Murali's degrees with and without the brace for his three deliveries? What were they.

 

[harsh.ag]

I haven't said I don't. What can we derive from the findings of WA scientists? Question - Did they give us Murali's degrees with and without the brace for his three deliveries? What were they.

1) Murali's testing was done at the UWA with former cricketers being present. All the testing done to arrive at the 15 degree rule was done there, including testing of other bowlers who were found to be chucking under previous rules.

2) The Channel 4's brace wasn't a test. Why would you trust that rather than UWA testing? You think the scientists are incapable of testing these things?

 

[Pratters]

1) Murali's testing was done at the UWA with former cricketers being present. All the testing done to arrive at the 15 degree rule was done there, including testing of other bowlers who were found to be chucking under previous rules.

2) The Channel 4's brace wasn't a test. Why would you trust that rather than UWA testing? You think the scientists are incapable of testing these things?

I repeat my question. Did they (University of WA) give us Murali's degrees with and without the brace for his three deliveries? What were they.

 

[Pratters]

I would also like to see the degrees of straightening McGrath and company were found to have. This report was allegedly leaked without no one wanting it leaked saying McGrath had more than 10 degrees and Sarwan had zero straightening. So if it was leaked, where is the report and how many degrees did each bowler have? Or was it just told that a report was leaked and every one latched on to that.

 

[Pratters]

Martin Crowe in 2006:

During Sri Lanka's recent 217-run Test win at Wellington, Crowe, currently a television commentator, claimed Murali's action deteriorated during a matchwinning spell on day four and needed to be reassessed. Following the match, Crowe sent an e-mail detailing his concerns to the ICC. It was reported that he planned to include video footage.

"I have no worries over his offspinner whatsoever," Crowe told The Dominion Post, a New Zealand daily. "It's the doosra which he now bowls more and more, often up to 50% in a given spell, which needs further clarification. His doosra was banned two years ago and I believe it needs consistent monitoring."

 

[harsh.ag]

So why don't you just come out and say it - You don't trust the scientists to necessarily be telling the whole truth, right?