Windies Team Discussion, and Other Related Things Thread

[Beamer]

Tour dates confirmed:

• Jan 20th- 1st ODI Dhaka
• Jan 22nd- 2nd ODI Dhaka
• Jan 25th- 3rd ODI Chattogram
• Feb 3-7th- 1st Test Dhaka
• Feb 11-15th- 2nd Test Chattogram

 

[JOJOXI]

I do feel some sympathy for the selectors - there has been much criticism for them not selecting Pooran but he had played only 3 FC matches in total before this tour. It would be hypocritical to say to players go back to FC cricket make tons of runs and then you'll be selected but then pick a player who doesn't play FC cricket on super green pitches I think it a) sets a dangerous precedent - why play FC cricket if you can make more money playing T20 cricket and have a greater chance playing Test cricket and b) I don't think it really helps Pooran the likelihood is he struggles in the NZ tests and suddenly a bad Bangladesh tour and he's presumably only a couple more matches from potentially being dropped. I do think there is a greater case for playing him v Bangladesh as you point out the spin factor and I'd expect the most bunsen of burners for the tour there in the New Year. Sympathy also because there were some calls criticising giving Holder the captaincy when he may well be dropped in a series or 2 doesn't make sense to me.

I do think the selectors don't trust their spinners and suspect they'll want to have 3 seamers (especially if Gabriel is one of the other 2 seamers) - especially if Roach is available - if he isn't they might go for Joseph but rightly or wrongly I'd be surprised if Chase gets dropped, I expect they'll see him as a 2nd spinner to partner Cornwall allowing them to have Holder at 8 and have a deeper batting lineup then if they went 3 seamers, 2 specialist spinners. Where would you have Pooran bat? It was interesting to see he batted at 3 and 5 in the tour matches. Presumably he bats at 3 or 4 as he's coming in as the perceived best Test batsman and giving you still have to fit Blackwood, Hetmyer, Holder and Dowrich/da Silva in the side I'm not sure where else he'd fit and even then that assumes one of Brooks or Bravo is dropped or Pooran keeps and JDS comes up to open.

 

[Beamer]

I do feel some sympathy for the selectors - there has been much criticism for them not selecting Pooran but he had played only 3 FC matches in total before this tour. It would be hypocritical to say to players go back to FC cricket make tons of runs and then you'll be selected but then pick a player who doesn't play FC cricket on super green pitches I think it a) sets a dangerous precedent - why play FC cricket if you can make more money playing T20 cricket and have a greater chance playing Test cricket and b) I don't think it really helps Pooran the likelihood is he struggles in the NZ tests and suddenly a bad Bangladesh tour and he's presumably only a couple more matches from potentially being dropped. I do think there is a greater case for playing him v Bangladesh as you point out the spin factor and I'd expect the most bunsen of burners for the tour there in the New Year. Sympathy also because there were some calls criticising giving Holder the captaincy when he may well be dropped in a series or 2 doesn't make sense to me.

I do think the selectors don't trust their spinners and suspect they'll want to have 3 seamers (especially if Gabriel is one of the other 2 seamers) - especially if Roach is available - if he isn't they might go for Joseph but rightly or wrongly I'd be surprised if Chase gets dropped, I expect they'll see him as a 2nd spinner to partner Cornwall allowing them to have Holder at 8 and have a deeper batting lineup then if they went 3 seamers, 2 specialist spinners. Where would you have Pooran bat? It was interesting to see he batted at 3 and 5 in the tour matches. Presumably he bats at 3 or 4 as he's coming in as the perceived best Test batsman and giving you still have to fit Blackwood, Hetmyer, Holder and Dowrich/da Silva in the side I'm not sure where else he'd fit and even then that assumes one of Brooks or Bravo is dropped or Pooran keeps and JDS comes up to open.

Personally I'd bat Pooran at 4 or 5 and say we're investing in you, go and do justice to your talent.

I don't want to put Da Silva under undue pressure yet even though he has the technique to open. I think a stint in the lower middle order to get used to tests and build some confidence would be ideal. I think he might end up opening eventually, that technique is solid.

 

[honestbharani]

I would still give time to Bravo at 3, its only two tests that he has failed in. A middle order of Bravo, Pooran, Silva, Hetmeyer, Holder sounds like a decent 3-7. You can add in Cornwall at 8 and then 3 proper seamers and its suddenly a rather balanced side.

 

[JOJOXI]

Personally I'd bat Pooran at 4 or 5 and say we're investing in you, go and do justice to your talent.

I don't want to put Da Silva under undue pressure yet even though he has the technique to open. I think a stint in the lower middle order to get used to tests and build some confidence would be ideal. I think he might end up opening eventually, that technique is solid.

Completely agree about Da Silva, I guess the issue is who do you go with? I know you've said you don't rate Moseley in the past - if the selectors think the same there is probably a case of opening with da Silva if the thinking is it will provide greater short term results then Brathwaite or Moseley - who do you think has the better game for spin when it comes to those 2 as in Bangladesh you imagine that will be a big factor and with Bangladesh a far stronger team at home you want to have an eye to future series but also have to pick the best side for the upcoming series too to some degree.

I would still give time to Bravo at 3, its only two tests that he has failed in. A middle order of Bravo, Pooran, Silva, Hetmeyer, Holder sounds like a decent 3-7. You can add in Cornwall at 8 and then 3 proper seamers and its suddenly a rather balanced side.

Bravo failed in home series v England and India too and then didn't tour England - Brooks already has a hundred in spin-friendly conditions v Afghanistan and has done better in the 2 series that both Brooks and Bravo have played in. Blackwood surely has to get into the side - I know his FC season was somewhat beefed up by one innings but a player goes away gets some FC runs and then gets some runs in Tests and stands out massively among the batsman I'd be stunned if he was dropped. I would presume he comes into the 3-7 you posted, Brooks instead of Bravo and Holder remains at 8.

 

[honestbharani]

Completely agree about Da Silva, I guess the issue is who do you go with? I know you've said you don't rate Moseley in the past - if the selectors think the same there is probably a case of opening with da Silva if the thinking is it will provide greater short term results then Brathwaite or Moseley - who do you think has the better game for spin when it comes to those 2 as in Bangladesh you imagine that will be a big factor and with Bangladesh a far stronger team at home you want to have an eye to future series but also have to pick the best side for the upcoming series too to some degree.



Bravo failed in home series v England and India too and then didn't tour England - Brooks already has a hundred in spin-friendly conditions v Afghanistan and has done better in the 2 series that both Brooks and Bravo have played in. Blackwood surely has to get into the side - I know his FC season was somewhat beefed up by one innings but a player goes away gets some FC runs and then gets some runs in Tests and stands out massively among the batsman I'd be stunned if he was dropped. I would presume he comes into the 3-7 you posted, Brooks instead of Bravo and Holder remains at 8.

Yeah I totally forgot Blackwood tbh. Then push Pooran to 3 and Blackwood to 4, Hetmeyer/Bravo/Brooks at 5 and Silva at 6 with Holder and Cornwall at 7 and 8.

I mean, I would still bat Bravo at 3 for a SC series, so personally, I would go:

Brathwaite
Campbell
Bravo
Blackwood
Pooran
Silva
Holder
Cornwall
Roach
extra spinner/seamer
other seamer

I would see if I can rest Gabriel for a test in the SC conditions and perhaps play Joseph or Holder instead and it would be interesting to see if Windies can find a second spinner to partner Cornwall.

 

[GotSpin]

Chemar should play ahead of Joseph

 

[Beamer]

Completely agree about Da Silva, I guess the issue is who do you go with? I know you've said you don't rate Moseley in the past - if the selectors think the same there is probably a case of opening with da Silva if the thinking is it will provide greater short term results then Brathwaite or Moseley - who do you think has the better game for spin when it comes to those 2 as in Bangladesh you imagine that will be a big factor and with Bangladesh a far stronger team at home you want to have an eye to future series but also have to pick the best side for the upcoming series too to some degree.

R.E Moseley I have seen him get out a lot early in the innings pushing at balls just outside of off stump. But we don;t have much to choose from tbh so I feel he has to come in for Kraigg. He deserves his chance. I think Kraigg is probably a bit better against spin but there is not much in it from what I have seen.

 

[Beamer]

Yeah I totally forgot Blackwood tbh. Then push Pooran to 3 and Blackwood to 4, Hetmeyer/Bravo/Brooks at 5 and Silva at 6 with Holder and Cornwall at 7 and 8.

I mean, I would still bat Bravo at 3 for a SC series, so personally, I would go:

Brathwaite
Campbell
Bravo
Blackwood
Pooran
Silva
Holder
Cornwall
Roach
extra spinner/seamer
other seamer

I would see if I can rest Gabriel for a test in the SC conditions and perhaps play Joseph or Holder instead and it would be interesting to see if Windies can find a second spinner to partner Cornwall.

I like that team a lot but I would definitely drop Kraigg. 3 years averaging less than 20! We can't put up with it any longer out of principle. Personally I would play Shannon because he does at least offer some pace, but I woudn't complain if he was given a rest. In regards to the spare spinner, I think Permaul really deserves the spot after years of toil and improvement in FC cricket, but they seem obsessed with Warrican's darts instead.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

So SSC, what is your Test Squad for Bangladesh? They leave the Caribbean on January 7th so I assume it will be announced soon. I don't know how many will opt out, but given that Roach and Dowrich left New Zealand I am counting them out. So my squad is:

Shayne Mosely
John Campbell
Shamarh Brooks (vc)
Darren Bravo
Nicholas Pooran
Shimron Hetmeyer
Jermaine Blackwood
Joshua Da Silva (wk)
Jason Holder (c)
Rakheem Cornwall
Veerasammy Permaul
Alzarri Joseph
Chemar Holder
Shannon Gabriel
Keemo Paul

Reserves:

Romario Shepherd
Nkrumah Bonner
Preston McSween
Ashmead Nedd
Kyle Mayers

Rationale:

Pooran and Hety are two of the best players of spin in the Caribbean. They could cause serious damage to the Bangladeshi spinners if it works. Pooran obviously doesn't have much FC experience but he looked class against NZ A and the time has come for us to think outside the box.

Kraigg and Chase could not possibly deserve a drop more, they have been dreadful for 3 years! So Mosely comes in as the next option and Campbell get a stay of execution after that fighting innings.

Permaul really deserves that second spinner slot, he has taken so many wickets and watching him he has definitely improved his flight and variations, whereas Warrican is always flat and just bowls the same ball over and over again. Ashmead Nedd gets the developing player slot in the reserves, like Jayden Seales did in NZ.

Our selectors have no imagination at all so I expect they will not pick Pooran and retain Chase and Kraigg, but lets see!

Hey Beamer, knowing what the conditions in BD will be like and the quality of their spinners (especially Taijul and Miraz), I'd go out of the park and select a few batsmen from Guyana. Guys who know how to play spin (Johnson and Singh)... I honestly feel like Brandon King deserves a look in the longer format (it's his best format). Nkrumah Bonner is another guy who I was pleased with...Determination and all that.

Bowling wise...we need genuine spinners; not lampy-pampy Chase. So, Permaul is leaps and bounds ahead of every other spinner in the region. I have seen almost all of the Guyana games last season...and trust me, this is the best he's bowled all his career. His variations are wicked.

Test squad needs a good mixture of guys with experience and youngsters coming up in an environment where the seniors guys are there to guide them through tough times.

Our test squad needs a good 3-4 years vision of where they want to be...folding to the opposition and not showing any fight is an automatic failure of that vision. It's test cricket ffs, you have to test your opposition as well if they're testing the **** out of you. Hard runs. Hard-earned wickets. Those are sweet.

Here's my vision test squad:

Openers: King, Da Silva(not yet, but in a few years time), Campbell, Moseley, Kraigg (he's probably 3rd choice), Shai Hope (Yes), Shimron Hetmyer, Kimani Melius

Middle Order bat: Brooks, Blackwood, Bravo, Leon Johnson, Vishaul Singh, Mayers, Chase(You're in the team primarily as a batsman), Pooran (as long as he plays in the domestic FC setup)

All-Rounders: Jason Holder, Romario Shepherd, Keemo Paul, Raymon Reifer, Matthew Patrick, Alzarri (Have you seen his batting technique?), Nyeem Young (for the future)

Keepers: Dowrich, Bramble (He can tear the bowling apart on his day), Jangoo (The best gloveman in the region, in my opinion)...plus we have Da Silva if needed

Specialist spinners: Permaul, Cornwall, Nedd, Akeal Hosein, Bryan Charles, Kevin Sinclair (loads of potential)

The Fyah-Power: Gabriel, Chemar, Kemar, Seales, McSween, Keon Harding, Jeremiah Louis(raw), Oshane...


I know that some of these picks might warrant a few headscratches...but I have seen these guys play. Build. Build. Build. Vision!

 

[Beamer]

Hey Beamer, knowing what the conditions in BD will be like and the quality of their spinners (especially Taijul and Miraz), I'd go out of the park and select a few batsmen from Guyana. Guys who know how to play spin (Johnson and Singh)... I honestly feel like Brandon King deserves a look in the longer format (it's his best format). Nkrumah Bonner is another guy who I was pleased with...Determination and all that.

Bowling wise...we need genuine spinners; not lampy-pampy Chase. So, Permaul is leaps and bounds ahead of every other spinner in the region. I have seen almost all of the Guyana games last season...and trust me, this is the best he's bowled all his career. His variations are wicked.

Test squad needs a good mixture of guys with experience and youngsters coming up in an environment where the seniors guys are there to guide them through tough times.

Our test squad needs a good 3-4 years vision of where they want to be...folding to the opposition and not showing any fight is an automatic failure of that vision. It's test cricket ffs, you have to test your opposition as well if they're testing the **** out of you. Hard runs. Hard-earned wickets. Those are sweet.

Here's my vision test squad:

Openers: King, Da Silva(not yet, but in a few years time), Campbell, Moseley, Kraigg (he's probably 3rd choice), Shai Hope (Yes), Shimron Hetmyer, Kimani Melius

Middle Order bat: Brooks, Blackwood, Bravo, Leon Johnson, Vishaul Singh, Mayers, Chase(You're in the team primarily as a batsman), Pooran (as long as he plays in the domestic FC setup)

All-Rounders: Jason Holder, Romario Shepherd, Keemo Paul, Raymon Reifer, Matthew Patrick, Alzarri (Have you seen his batting technique?), Nyeem Young (for the future)

Keepers: Dowrich, Bramble (He can tear the bowling apart on his day), Jangoo (The best gloveman in the region, in my opinion)...plus we have Da Silva if needed

Specialist spinners: Permaul, Cornwall, Nedd, Akeal Hosein, Bryan Charles, Kevin Sinclair (loads of potential)

The Fyah-Power: Gabriel, Chemar, Kemar, Seales, McSween, Keon Harding, Jeremiah Louis(raw), Oshane...


I know that some of these picks might warrant a few headscratches...but I have seen these guys play. Build. Build. Build. Vision!

I like the idea of a vision test squad. The problem is our selectors have no vision, they are so conservative. I am dreading the release of the squads to Bangladesh to be honest.

I wouldn't mess around with the bowling too much apart from to give some exposure to young bowlers for when Roach and Gabriel are injured. It's the batting that I have had enough of, I just want to see some changes and them trying something different, I am honestly so fed up with them.

It's got to the point where if Kraigg and Chase are still selected I may not bother watching. 3 years and you still can't get your feet forward...... Come on man.

 

[Beamer]

Warwickshire teenager signs first professional contract as Caribbean talent drain continues

Oh dear. We can't afford to lose someone like him. The predatory nature of this really annoys me, nabbing him whilst on a scholarship, but what can we do? Absolutely nothing.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Nothing lost there...he's Bajan...and Bajans are more British than actual British people.


Not newsworthy to me.

 

[Beamer]

A Bajan kid gets offered a scholarship and before you know it Warwickshire and the England Lions setup are all over him. With Jofra Archer, there was personal choice after trying to represent Windies and it not going to plan. This is very different and leaves a sour taste.

I guess it is what it is though.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Mark Deyal will be one to watch when the Regional Super50 starts next month...he’s been lighting up the place in the TT warmup games playing for Pollard XI.

 

[Beamer]

Mark Deyal will be one to watch when the Regional Super50 starts next month...he’s been lighting up the place in the TT warmup games playing for Pollard XI.

Also good to see Kirsten Kallicharan getting runs. I've always thought he's a talent.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Also good to see Kirsten Kallicharan getting runs. I've always thought he's a talent.

It looks like he's not made it into the provisional squad....

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Trinidad's team is shaping up to be the strongest one on paper:



RED FORCE PROVISIONAL SQUAD

Kieron Pollard, Sunil Narine, Nicholas Pooran, Jyd Goolie, Tion Webster, Jayden Seales, Khary Pierre, Mark Deyal, Evin Lewis, Darren Bravo, Jason Mohammed, Ravi Rampaul, Isaiah Rajah, Kjorn Ottley, Yannic Cariah, Anderson Phillip, Akeal Hosein, Rayad Emrit, Imran Khan, Terrence Hinds, Denesh Ramdin, Lendl Simmons. Dwayne Bravo (mentor).

 

[Beamer]

Trinidad's team is shaping up to be the strongest one on paper:



RED FORCE PROVISIONAL SQUAD

Kieron Pollard, Sunil Narine, Nicholas Pooran, Jyd Goolie, Tion Webster, Jayden Seales, Khary Pierre, Mark Deyal, Evin Lewis, Darren Bravo, Jason Mohammed, Ravi Rampaul, Isaiah Rajah, Kjorn Ottley, Yannic Cariah, Anderson Phillip, Akeal Hosein, Rayad Emrit, Imran Khan, Terrence Hinds, Denesh Ramdin, Lendl Simmons. Dwayne Bravo (mentor).

Great to see all the top names there. That is a strong side in any country.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Perhaps a bit long in the tooth that side, but strong nethertheless