Wicketkeeping standards

[Tangles]

Standards have slipped because everyone wants a Gilly. The fact that he was a one off is apparently lost on selectors around the world. The continual emphasis on batting over keeping filters down through grade cricket and juniors and generates the attitude that you can't get picked on keeping alone. So that extra few hours you have are spent batting and not keeping to your teams bowlers in the nets.

I can only comment on the keepers I have seen since I started watching cricket in 88 but Healy and Russell were stand outs.

This Dean Jones stumping has always been memorable for me:

Incredible stumping by Jack Russell 3rd test 1990/91 Ashes - YouTube

 

[Daemon]

Genuine question, would most of you guys prefer a top class keeper averaging 25 with the bat or a Dhoni standard keeper averaging 40?

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Genuine question, would most of you guys prefer a top class keeper averaging 25 with the bat or a Dhoni standard keeper averaging 40?

Depends what the rest of your batting line up is like as to whether you can "carry" that player or not. Personally i'd not be too bothered. The fact that Prior is a decent keeper now means it isn't really a problem for England but I think South Africa are doing it wrong in making de Villiers keep as his batting is so great when he hasn't got the gloves and he is ordinary with the gloves on anyway..

 

[Daemon]

Depends what the rest of your batting line up is like as to whether you can "carry" that player or not

Yeah, good point.

Personally don't think AB ****s up too often with the gloves to warrant Tsolekile's inclusion, but the moment SA find a decent spinner he should give them up imo. I'm assuming his batting isn't affected by the keeping ofc.

 

[Tangles]

If you don't have faith in your top 6 then most teams are wanting a guy who can average 40 and not muck up easy dismissals. That being the case fans should be fine with hard catches being dropped and expect stumpings to be missed unless the batsmans a yard out and it turns so slow my Gran could catch it.

If we had someone in FC cricket with Healys hands then I'd take someone who averages 25 and can build partnerships. Good keepers create dismissals and you need that with DRS around taking the ones away you used to get.

 

[Cabinet96]

Genuine question, would most of you guys prefer a top class keeper averaging 25 with the bat or a Dhoni standard keeper averaging 40?

If the side has a strong tail, probably the top class keeper, if not the guy averaging 40.

I personally think AB keeping is a bad move, not because he's really bad with the gloves, but because it seems to be hindering his batting. In that case I'd rather they brought a specialist keeper in, even if they're only going to average 20-30.

 

[NasserFan207]

Ramdin is a quality keeper, but also a substandard batsman, however WI are forced into playing him as they don't have any good batsmen/keepers knocking about. If they did he'd be gone in an instant

 

[Agent Nationaux]

How is de Kock as a keeper?

 

[marc71178]

Doesn't even keep for his domestic team when they're at full strength.

 

[MrPrez]

Ive heard he has lots of potential with the gloves actually.

And to answer dong, it depends on yourntop 6 but as a standard answer, id taje the dhoni keeper.

 

[Tangles]

Would a young Healy get a game in this post Gilly world?

 

[morgieb]

Would a young Healy get a game in this post Gilly world?

Doubtful.

At least if he didn't then we wouldn't have to put up with his commentary

 

[Red]

Would a young Healy get a game in this post Gilly world?

He would. Healy was a very competent batsman, and also the best keeper I've seen live. Guy was a ****ing gun, and if Gilchrist hadn't come along and changed the parameters, he'd be recognised as Australia's best ever, and maybe the best ever, ever.

 

[morgieb]

I'm not sure Gilly changed things that much. Jack Russell was pretty shabbily treated by England, and he finished up before Healy retired.

 

[Tangles]

Maybe its rose colored glasses but growing up with Healy keeping I always felt he could have done better with the bat. Seemed one of those guys who knuckled down if runs were needed but otherwise just played carefree.

As a young batter I did some keeping when needed and Healy made it look stupidly easy. Its damn hard.

 

[cnerd123]

I think the choice would depend more on the bowling attack than the Top 6.

If my bowlers are those who could score some runs, but they aren't very good bowlers and don't produce a lot of opportunities, then I'd want the really good keeper, so that he doesn't mess up the few chances he gets and/or produces a few out of nowhere. The runs he doesn't score can be made up by the bowlers.

But if my bowlers are fantastic bowlers, but can't bat, then a decent keeper and good batsman would be better.

It could also depend a little bit on the style of the bowler. Guys like Waqar and Wasim don't really look for edges, they just attack the stumps, whereas a bowler like Morkel or Finn might prefer a really good gloveman behind. And the same could go for spinners who rely on getting batsmen stumped as one of their main modes of dismissals.

As for ODIs and T20s...I think I'd always pick the better gloveman.

 

[The Sean]

Taking batting ability into consideration when selecting a wicketkeeper isn't brand new. In 1970 Brian Taber was dropped from the Australian Test team and replaced by a young Rod Marsh - virtually everyone in Australia considered Taber the better gloveman and the consensus was that Marsh had been selected on the basis of his superior batting ability. Likewise, it was always acknowledged that Russell's England career was curtailed by his (relative) lack of batting ability. That being said, Gilly has clearly been a massive changer in that respect.

I suppose it's similar to another relatively recent phenomenon, which is the trend for wanting six specialist batsmen even at the expense of a fifth bowler. For decades, teams were generally happy with an even balance of batting and bowling strength - indeed, the old theory is that an ideal eleven should consist of five batsmen, five bowlers and the best wicketkeeper. Bradman's much-maligned dream team was consistent with this, as was the all time Australian XI selected by Phillip Derriman in his well known book of the 1980s. That both of these teams today appear to have laughably long tails shows how different the general thinking has become.

 

[Tangles]

If you have a great all rounder in the team like Kallis for example, you get that balance. Having a keeper who can hold their own with the bat gives you 7 batsmen.

 

[andruid]

Mildly suprised nobody's used this thread as a platform to beat up on the Akmals. Either way I expect with time keeping skills will pick up as newer kids find ways to work more keeping practice in with batting.

 

[chaminda_00]

The ironic thing is that Healy was selected over the likes Dwyer, Rixon and Zoehrer as he was seen as better batsmen, rather then better keeper. Picking keepers on batting first has been around forever, it is just sometimes they get lucky they are also the best keepers as well.

The real difference now is that top order batsmen, are encouraged to keep to extend the team's batting. So you have a lot of makeshift keepers. Whereas in the past batsmen were encouraged to keep, unless they had a nature skill.