Why has England become so good in ODIs

[Black_Warrior]

Shouldn't be forgotten that some of the batsmen who are now thriving, mainly Roy and Hales, had serious doubters for the first few years of their careers. They didn't didn't start off fully formed, they were cultivated into the hugely attacking, but relatively controlled and capable of huge scores, batsmen they are now.

Selectors deserve a lot of credit for patiently building this team over a few years.

But that is exactly the change though. Batsmen like Hales and Roy would never ever be persisted with in an England set up prior to 2015.

 

[Top_Cat]

Basically unrelated but I've wanted to say it for a while. Plunkett's stats since the last wc are interesting - averages 36 wickets @ 36.38 when England bowl first, averages 39 wickets @ 19.2 when England bat first.

What to make of them? He's probably benefited from England putting on above par scores when batting first, opposing batsman having to look to attack, even recklessly because England have scored so many. Obviously bowls well when the opposing batsmen have to attack him but his average has probably benefited from a lot of cheap wickets that he wouldn't have got playing in a weaker side.

Most of the other bowlers there isn't a whole lot of difference between bat or bowl first since the last wc.

He's taken a lot of wickets even with the higher cost, though. That's a huge improvement from where he was and even if he was only taking wickets defending a total, that's still useful since the England game plan if they win the toss is and should be to bat first. Bloke's in the team to to take wickets, not keep it tight and that he's doing better than anyone else at the moment. Deserves a lot of credit for turning it around tbh.

Or, put another way, who else should be in the side over him? I can't think of anyone who'd do a better job, myself.

 

[theegyptian]

He's taken a lot of wickets even with the higher cost, though. That's a huge improvement from where he was and even if he was only taking wickets defending a total, that's still useful since the England game plan if they win the toss is and should be to bat first. Bloke's in the team to to take wickets, not keep it tight and that he's doing better than anyone else at the moment. Deserves a lot of credit for turning it around tbh.

Or, put another way, who else should be in the side over him? I can't think of anyone who'd do a better job, myself.

I certainly wasn't arguing for him to be dropped. His 36 avg when Eng bowl first (since last wc) still compares decently against the general figures of the rest of the bowlers used in that time- only Rashid and Woakes significantly better. It's just interesting to see such a disparity between bat first/bowl first.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I certainly wasn't arguing for him to be dropped. His 36 avg when Eng bowl first (since last wc) still compares decently against the general figures of the rest of the bowlers used in that time- only Rashid and Woakes significantly better. It's just interesting to see such a disparity between bat first/bowl first.

Big part of it could just simply be luck tbh. It's not like the sample size is enormous.

 

[MW1304]

But that is exactly the change though. Batsmen like Hales and Roy would never ever be persisted with in an England set up prior to 2015.

...I mean yeah.

 

[garylyon]

1. Fearless approach to batting supported by incredible batting depth and effected in practice by a series of sloggers who time the ball well and are all simultaneously in very good form
2. Prevalence of flat pitches especially at home that negate opposition's bowling superiority and mask their own bowling mediocrity
3. Ridiculously small boundaries (home)

 

[garylyon]

England have made ODI Cricket so boring of late that its practically unwatchable to me now. The India series wasn't so bad though with only one 300+ total.

 

[Black_Warrior]

England have made ODI Cricket so boring of late that its practically unwatchable to me now. The India series wasn't so bad though with only one 300+ total.

Which is why the Champions Trophy was so much much because you had the big teams who changed ODI cricket and the way it's played talked up as favourites and expected to win and some low ranked, obsolete team comes from nowhere, drags everyone down to their level and wins the tournament from under their nose

 

[Adders]

1. Fearless approach to batting supported by incredible batting depth and effected in practice by a series of sloggers who time the ball well and are all simultaneously in very good form
2. Prevalence of flat pitches especially at home that negate opposition's bowling superiority and mask their own bowling mediocrity
3. Ridiculously small boundaries (home)

England have made ODI Cricket so boring of late that its practically unwatchable to me now. The India series wasn't so bad though with only one 300+ total.

Anyone else see the problem with this summation?

.

 

[Zinzan]

reckon the bowling is getting a little under valued here.

See, I don't. Their bowling has been middle of the road. Woakes, who's been their best in the last 3 years, has averaged a tick under 30 with an ER over 5. Nothing to write home about.

Clearly it's been England's batting on goodish to excellent wickets that makes them special.

Would much prefer NZ's ODI bowling options of Boult, Henry, Ferguson, Milne, Santner, Sodhi & Southee, over Woakes, Plunkett, Wood, Rashid, Ali, Willey & Stokes.

Edit: (As an unbiased example)

 

[Mr Miyagi]

See, I don't. Their bowling has been middle of the road. Woakes, who's been their best in the last 3 years, has averaged a tick under 30 with an ER over 5. Nothing to write home about.

Clearly it's been England's batting on goodish to excellent wickets that makes them special.

Would much prefer NZ's ODI bowling options of Boult, Henry, Ferguson, Milne, Santner, Sodhi & Southee, over Woakes, Plunkett, Wood, Rashid, Ali, Willey & Stokes.

Generous to Ferguson vs Woakes but I get your sentiment.

 

[Zinzan]

Generous to Ferguson vs Woakes but I get your sentiment.

At no stage did I compare Ferguson to Woakes individually.

Your continued misinterpretation of my posts in a very short space of time is peculiar.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

At no stage did I compare Ferguson to Woakes individually.

Your continued misinterpretation of my posts in a very short space of time is peculiar.

I said that I got your sentiment, but you're clearly being generous to the particular individuals involved for NZ and harsh for particular individuals for England by grouping them.

I won't pass personal comment on your post quality in a short space of time. Perhaps you may want to think about doing the same in future.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Isn't the ''England style'' what people want from the pyjama competitions, 6s, wacky batting, massive totals?

 

[Starfighter]

Your continued misinterpretation of my posts in a very short space of time is peculiar.

I see you're new here. You might encounter this a lot.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Isn't the ''England style'' what people want from the pyjama competitions, 6s, wacky batting, massive totals?

Not necessarily

 

[Hicheal Michael]

Would much prefer NZ's ODI bowling options of Boult, Henry, Ferguson, Milne, Santner, Sodhi & Southee, over Woakes, Plunkett, Wood, Rashid, Ali, Willey & Stokes.

One would surely trade Wood for Boult, though i cannot really see who else from the Nz attack you would include that would not weaken the batting, let alone warrant a place on bowling merit alone?

 

[Mr Miyagi]

One would surely trade Wood for Boult, though i cannot really see who else from the Nz attack you would include that would not weaken the batting, let alone warrant a place on bowling merit alone?

Santner in a heartbeat. Smashed Eng with the bat and torments all odi batsmen.

As for the rest - far more debatable, I agree.

 

[Hicheal Michael]

Santner in a heartbeat. Smashed Eng with the bat and torments all odi batsmen.

Fair point, not sure what the deal is with these dropped catches though?

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Fair point, not sure what the deal is with these dropped catches though?

He fields well and drops catches. Enigma.