Why do England struggle to produce undisputedly great players?

[akilana]

Could easily say almost 25 then and that is closer to 27 than 30 is.

Anderson doesnt average 27. It is 28.28 to be precise.

 

[Furball]

I wouldn't call it dishonest for someone to categorise ~27 as being "almost 30"

it's can easily be seen as an accurate description

I guess you'll have no problem with me saying he averages around 26 then, which is factually more correct than saying he averages nearly 30.

 

[Burgey]

Sure but the context is different. People are common to live up to 80 or 90. As a percentage those 3 years are bugger all.

Most bowlers average between 20-40. To say someone who averages 27 averages around 30 is misleading. As a percentage its a huge difference to the general range of bowling averages.

Plus just generally 27 is a very good average, 30 is so-so. There's quite a difference.

Unless you buy me that steak you'll get nowhere near 80 or 90

Edit: in fact you won't reach 31.

 

[Burgey]

Anderson, btw is a great example of how good a fairly average player can become if they learn from their experiences. England selectors deserve a fair bit of credit for picking and sticking with him too.

He worked out what his strengths are and his game awareness went through the roof. Around 2006-2008 I seriously reckoned he could easily have been just another one of the innumerable promising but ultimately failed seam bowlers who learned nothing and went nowhere. But he did learn and has fashioned for himself a fine career. He's a very dangerous bowler.

 

[Daemon]

Anderson, btw is a great example of how good a fairly average player can become if they learn from their experiences. England selectors deserve a fair bit of credit for picking and sticking with him too.

He worked out what his strengths are and his game awareness went through the roof. Around 2006-2008 I seriously reckoned he could easily have been just another one of the innumerable promising but ultimately failed seam bowlers who learned nothing and went nowhere. But he did learn and has fashioned for himself a fine career. He's a very dangerous bowler.

I like how the tone of this post is all 'settle down kids i'm going to teach you something' but what follows is just stuff everyone knows

 

[Burgey]

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/testing-forum/58214-do-we-really-need-daemon.html

 

[listento_me]

JFC, how many times does it need to be said??

There is a difference between an ATG and a Great right?? I have never said Jimmy is an ATG, I don't believe for a second he is in the same tier as Malcolm Marshall, Glenn McGrath, Imran and bowlers of that calibre. But below them there are the next level of bowlers......I like to call them simply "Greats", not ATG but "Greats". Jimmy Anderson is in that bracket, IMHO.

Ok, let me clarify, I don't think Jimmy is in the second tier either. If there's such a thing as a 3rd tier great then yeah, he'd make it.

Or actually, maybe you could name your second tier greats, I'm curious to see who you rank alongside Jimmy.

 

[Shri]

Bowlers averaging 18-21 should be in tier 1.

21-24 = tier 2

24-27 = tier 3

Thats a bit arbitrary but I think it would work itself out roughly in the end.

 

[Top_Cat]

Never seen a guy with frustrated mod as deep as Daemon's rn.

 

[CapeTown Guy]

I regard Jimmy Anderson about equal to Makhaya Ntini. The weight of numbers is impressive and on his day he is a real threat. But in the bigger scheme of things he is a bit of a nobody.

 

[Daemon]

Never seen a guy with frustrated mod as deep as Daemon's rn.

Not sure what you mean?

 

[mr_mister]

Bowlers averaging 18-21 should be in tier 1.

21-24 = tier 2

24-27 = tier 3

Thats a bit arbitrary but I think it would work itself out roughly in the end.

Arbitary is an understatement, Shane Warne is in tier 3 by this logic - there is so much more to it then bowling average, SR and ER for one thng

 

[Shri]

Arbitary is an understatement, Shane Warne is in tier 3 by this logic - there is so much more to it then bowling average, SR and ER for one thng

Spinners should obviously be measured differently.

 

[mr_mister]

kk my bad - still, Andy Roberts!

 

[Coronis]

Bowlers averaging 18-21 should be in tier 1.

21-24 = tier 2

24-27 = tier 3

Thats a bit arbitrary but I think it would work itself out roughly in the end.

Yeah ranking players just based on average... didn't that go out of style years ago?

 

[Shri]

What do you want me to say? I already told you it might not be the best way to do it. Try to understand what's being said, maybe?

 

[Coronis]

What do you want me to say? I already told you it might not be the best way to do it. Try to understand what's being said, maybe?

What was the point of the post then?

 

[listento_me]

Bowlers averaging 18-21 should be in tier 1.

21-24 = tier 2

24-27 = tier 3

Thats a bit arbitrary but I think it would work itself out roughly in the end.

That's crazy. Hardly anyone with an extended ODI and test career average 18.

 

[Shri]

What was the point of the post then?

A rough guideline to sort most pace bowlers.

 

[Howe_zat]

Yeah I think it was pretty clear Shri was knocking around a ballpark figure.