Who will be harder to replace - McGrath or Warne

[FaaipDeOiad]

With all the talk about Clark, we're yet to see him play on really unhelpful conditions, or against the top batsmen in the world.

You kidding? He's played on one absolute road and another pretty flat wicket in this series, and he's bowled to the best non-Australian batting lineup going, and also to South Africa who aren't bad. There's obviously some batsmen he hasn't bowled to, and he hasn't succeeded in the subcontinent yet, but he's certainly proven his ability to bowl on any sort of home wicket in the last three tests.

 

[Poker Boy]

You kidding? He's played on one absolute road and another pretty flat wicket in this series, and he's bowled to the best non-Australian batting lineup going, and also to South Africa who aren't bad. There's obviously some batsmen he hasn't bowled to, and he hasn't succeeded in the subcontinent yet, but he's certainly proven his ability to bowl on any sort of home wicket in the last three tests.

Can't believe you rate our batting line-up so highly - its full of potential (Bell and Cook will improve and Pietersen could be the best in the world one day) but it has had three pathetic surrenders this series and JASON GILLESPIE has scored as many Test 200s as all of them combined! If our batting line-up is the second best in the world Test batting is in a poor state right now.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Can't believe you rate our batting line-up so highly - its full of potential (Bell and Cook will improve and Pietersen could be the best in the world one day) but it has had three pathetic surrenders this series and JASON GILLESPIE has scored as many Test 200s as all of them combined! If our batting line-up is the second best in the world Test batting is in a poor state right now.

Certainly it's not as proven as Australia's batting or even where India's was a couple of years ago, but who else is there? England are either the second best test batting lineup in the world or very close IMO.

The main competition would be India or Pakistan, and neither of them are ahead of England. India have Dravid, but Sehwag and Tendulkar haven't exactly been setting the world on fire of late, and the other spots in the lineup are totally changable at the moment. Ganguly and Laxman have both recently been dropped, and Jaffer is just establishing himself. Pakistan probably have a better middle order than England with Younis, Inzy and Yousuf in there, but they're a bit lacking in terms of openers and aren't a particularly stable lineup either. Both good batting sides, but England are certainly every bit as good, and probably better across the top 5. England's weakness is that their tail basically starts at 6 at the moment.

Anyway, the point is that Clark has bowled well against good batsmen and on unfriendly pitches in the last few tests. There's no doubt he's a long way from a proven replacement from McGrath, but he certainly hasn't feasted on weak batting by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[silentstriker]

McGrath

 

[Johnners]

Warne definetly.

Australian spin bowling stocks are in shambles. Macgill is bowling pies, as is Dan Cullen. Cullen Bailey, Aaron Heal, and to a lesser extent Nathan Hauritz (in OD) are the only spinners who've bowled well this season imo. Cameron White hasn't bowled near enough to be considered, despite being touted just 2 seasons ago as the man to take over from Warne.

Whilst for a replacement for the mighty Pidge, Johnson, Bracken, Tait & Hilfenhaus are all champing at the bit and raring to go if, and when they're given an opportunity. ATM i'd personally have Tait as the last in line of those 4. Hilfenhaus has been a machine for Tassy, as has Bracks for NSW, whilst Johnson has bowled well in his limited time with QLD this year. Tait did play well against Eng in the tour games, but apart from that, he's only produced 1 other spell of note against NSW.

Both Warne & McGrath are legends though, and whoever is chosen to take their places come selection time will have gigantic boots to fill, and enourmous expectation placed upon them. Whoever it is, i hope for their's, and Australia's sake, they don't buckle under the pressure, and can make a mark in the international arena.

 

[kvemuri]

After looking at the overall stats of Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne (not including Bang and Zim)

Shane Warne 143 Matches for 699 Wkts of which, 509 Wkts came off of 4 teams (Eng, SA, NZL and surprisingly Pak), which is extremely impressive, but primarily Warne has feasted on those 4 teams (Pakistan's record against Warne still is a shock to me, given how well equipped they are against spin). Warne's stats

Eng - 186 wkts of 34 matches
SA - 130 wkts of 24 matches
NZL - 103 wkts of 20 matches
Pak - 90 wkts of 15 matches
Ind - 43 wkts of 14 matches
SLK - 59 wkts of 13 matches
WI - 65 wkts of 19 mathes


Glenn McGrath 122 matches 555 wkts, of which he has been a balanced pain in the neck for nearly every team or rather every team he took on, McGrath's stats

Eng - 149 wkts of 28 matches
SA - 57 wkts of 17 matches
NZL - 57 wkts of 14 matches
Pak - 80 wkts of 17 matches
Ind - 51 wkts of 11 matches
SLK - 37 wkts of 8 matches
WI - 110 wkts of 23 matches

When I compare these stats and that McGrath is a frontline bowler, who usually ended up softening or dealing a significant dent to the top order, that by the time Warne came in he had to deal with either the middle order or the lower order. Without McGrath and now Brett Lee, and I gotta give the English batsmen some credit here, Warne wouldn't be close to the 700 wkts that he is now on the verge of.

Warne's figures are impressive but I am considering consistency against every team and McGrath definitely has an edge over Warne there. Hence I think McGrath is the irreplaceable one when compared to Warne

 

[silentstriker]

You make GM-OLAS proud son.

 

[JF.]

They are both champions and both cannot be replaced.

However, McGrath hasn't been the same since he injured himself at Edgbaston last year and we've still been winning matches. I think we've already learned a lot about life without McGrath.

Warne, on the other hand, well - there will only ever be one Warnie. *cries*. I feel privileged to have been around to have seen him bowl in the flesh.

I'm so glad I will be at the G for his last Melb test I hope I'm there when he takes his 700th wicket. I think I will need ear muffs if I am!

 

[Anil]

They are both champions and both cannot be replaced.

However, McGrath hasn't been the same since he injured himself at Edgbaston last year and we've still been winning matches. I think we've already learned a lot about life without McGrath.

Warne, on the other hand, well - there will only ever be one Warnie. *cries*. I feel privileged to have been around to have seen him bowl in the flesh.

I'm so glad I will be at the G for his last Melb test I hope I'm there when he takes his 700th wicket. I think I will need ear muffs if I am!

oh you will learn about life without warne as well...and you will continue winning without him...his bunnies might heave a sigh of relief that he's gone, and the next great bowler might take a while to step up, but aus will still have a balanced and really good attack....

 

[PhoenixFire]

It's not all about bowling though, with what Warne adds with tactics and fielding, he will be more difficult to replace.

 

[JF.]

oh you will learn about life without warne as well...and you will continue winning without him...his bunnies might heave a sigh of relief that he's gone, and the next great bowler might take a while to step up, but aus will still have a balanced and really good attack....

I remember Aussie cricket well before either of them arrived on the scene. We had some reasonably good pace bowlers but couldn't find a decent spinner for love or money. Warne's own influence should ensure that that doesn't happen again but it's still a scary prospect

MacGill will no doubt replace Warne in the short term. It's after that that scares me

 

[JF.]

It's not all about bowling though, with what Warne adds with tactics and fielding, he will be more difficult to replace.

It's even more than that - it's his aura. Warne is a larger than life character that adds something special.

 

[Stumped]

warne...it will be sad to so them go

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Warne will presumably be replaced by MacGill at least for a couple of years, not in the same league but a top quality spinner by any normal standards. MacGrath will probably be replaced by a tin of salmon.

 

[Choc]

OZ has so much talent and yes I'll admit it's sad to see them go but I'm intrigued to see who will replace who with all the really good young talent they have

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Warne's figures are impressive but I am considering consistency against every team and McGrath definitely has an edge over Warne there. Hence I think McGrath is the irreplaceable one when compared to Warne

None of that is really relevant at all. You're arguing that McGrath was a better bowler than Warne statistically, and that's fine, but Warne was a spinner. McGrath can be replaced because there's a range of talented seamers who are waiting to come into the team, even if he's close to the best Australia has ever had. They might not be as good as him, but when you consider the possible choices and the fact that McGrath isn't bowling quite as well as he used to and hasn't been Australia's top seamer in a series for over 18 months, he's obviously going to be a less crippling loss.

Warne can't be replaced because Australia haven't had a comparable spinner since the 1930s. There's MacGill, and then it'll be a range of attempts at finding a quality international spinner, similar to what Australia went through during the 70s and 80s, where Ashley Mallett was the pick of the bunch. I think Australia can probably handle that and still be a strong side, but it certainly won't be the same team. There's be nobody to bowl from one end all day and keep pressure on and allow the seamers to rotate, and nobody to come out in the second innings and win the test from nowhere. Then there's the batting and the psychological impact he has on the rest of the team. Simply no contest.

 

[Richard]

It's interesting that, in the current Xuhaib thread, some people appear to have said that McGrath had been common consensus earlier. Well, not so. The results were Warne 40 - 8 McGrath, just in case anyone decides to sabotage this poll by putting a load of McGrath votes in.

Actually, dunno if it's possible for Mods to close the poll without closing the thread? If so, might be a good idea.