Who is your Wicket Keeper for the Post Packer Dream XI?

[stephen]

Look, any batsman who averages over 45 is a quality batsman.

I would grant that Sehwag is probably a better batsman in test matches than Gilchrist was.

Gilchrist was a very destructive batsman who could take the game away from the opposition and basically win the game for Australia. Sehwag has done the same.

As far as value goes I would, like I'm sure most, rate Gilchrist as second only to Bradman in the history of the game. In any all time world XI Gilchrist is second picked, with him, Bradman and Sobers as being the only three default picks.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

As far as value goes I would, like I'm sure most, rate Gilchrist as second only to Bradman in the history of the game. In any all time world XI Gilchrist is second picked, with him, Bradman and Sobers as being the only three default picks.

Anyone under 12 perhaps. Bradman and Sobers are certs but in an era when there wasn't so much emphasis on batting many would consider Alan Knott or Les Ames as the cert keeper - both infinitely superior to Gilchrist purely as a keeper.

 

[Ikki]

Look, any batsman who averages over 45 is a quality batsman.

I would grant that Sehwag is probably a better batsman in test matches than Gilchrist was.

Gilchrist was a very destructive batsman who could take the game away from the opposition and basically win the game for Australia. Sehwag has done the same.

As far as value goes I would, like I'm sure most, rate Gilchrist as second only to Bradman in the history of the game. In any all time world XI Gilchrist is second picked, with him, Bradman and Sobers as being the only three default picks.

Yeh, this thread is terribly off course any way.

 

[vic_orthdox]

RE: stats for Sehwag, CBF right now. Just went through and did Gilly's manually.

 

[Precambrian]

Sehwag's co-centurians

[B]Runs	Pos	Opposition	Ground		Start Date	Co-centurians[/B]
105	6	v South Africa	Bloemfontein	03-Nov-01	Tendulkar
106	2	v England	Nottingham	08-Aug-02	None
147	2	v West Indies	Mumbai		09-Oct-02	Dravid
130	2	v New Zealand	Mohali		16-Oct-03	Laxman
195	2	v Australia	Melbourne	26-Dec-03	None
309	2	v Pakistan	Multan		28-Mar-04	Tendulkar
155	2	v Australia	Chennai		14-Oct-04	None
164	1	v South Africa	Kanpur		20-Nov-04	None
173	2	v Pakistan	Mohali		08-Mar-05	None
201	2	v Pakistan	Bangalore	24-Mar-05	None
254	1	v Pakistan	Lahore		13-Jan-06	Dravid
180	2	v West Indies	Gros Islet	10-Jun-06	Dravid, Kaif
151	1	v Australia	Adelaide	24-Jan-08	None
319	2	v South Africa	Chennai		26-Mar-08	Dravid
201*	2	v Sri Lanka	Galle		31-Jul-08	None

That's amazing. 8 centuries where no other Indian scored a 100 in the innings.

 

[zaremba]

Sehwag's co-centurians

[B]Runs    Pos    Opposition    Ground        Start Date    Co-centurians[/B]
105    6    v South Africa    Bloemfontein    03-Nov-01    Tendulkar
106    2    v England    Nottingham    08-Aug-02    None
147    2    v West Indies    Mumbai        09-Oct-02    Dravid
130    2    v New Zealand    Mohali        16-Oct-03    Laxman
195    2    v Australia    Melbourne    26-Dec-03    None
309    2    v Pakistan    Multan        28-Mar-04    Tendulkar
155    2    v Australia    Chennai        14-Oct-04    None
164    1    v South Africa    Kanpur        20-Nov-04    None
173    2    v Pakistan    Mohali        08-Mar-05    None
201    2    v Pakistan    Bangalore    24-Mar-05    None
254    1    v Pakistan    Lahore        13-Jan-06    Dravid
180    2    v West Indies    Gros Islet    10-Jun-06    Dravid, Kaif
151    1    v Australia    Adelaide    24-Jan-08    None
319    2    v South Africa    Chennai        26-Mar-08    Dravid
201*    2    v Sri Lanka    Galle        31-Jul-08    None

That's amazing. 8 centuries where no other Indian scored a 100 in the innings.

He certainly cashes in when he gets to his 100 doesn't he? His average further score after his first hundred runs is 94.14.

 

[The Sean]

His 11-in-a-row over 150 is a record, is it not?

Fantastic effort.

 

[silentstriker]

Gilly, no one else into the double figures. Rightly so IMO.

 

[Precambrian]

He certainly cashes in when he gets to his 100 doesn't he? His average further score after his first hundred runs is 94.14.

99 in fact, almost 200 is his final score is his score when he gets a 100. That is just plain amazing.

 

[Precambrian]

His 11-in-a-row over 150 is a record, is it not?

Fantastic effort.

Yes.

And not one hundred is against a minnow. Richard would be proud.

 

[Top_Cat]

Not in Test matches, the whole unlimited time thing...

Often enough, Gilchrist would come in at 5 down, and whomever from the top 6 was in with him would end up making a 100 with him. He needed that to have enough time, and not have to rely on the tail for too many of his runs. This obviously is somewhat countered by the fact that he scored so quickly.

However, here's a list of Gilly's 17 Test centuries, and other batsmen who made a century in the same innings:

99 vs Pak: Langer 127.
01 vs Ind: Hayden 119.
01 vs Eng: S Waugh 105; Martyn 105.
01 vs NZ: Langer 104; Hayden 136.
02 vs SA: Hayden 122; Martyn 133.
02 vs SA: nil
03 vs ENG: S Waugh 102.
03 vs WI: Ponting 206; Lehmann 160.
03 vs ZIM: Hayden 380.
04 vs SL: Martyn 161 (Gilchrist batting @ 3).
04 vs IND: Clarke 151.
04 vs NZ: Clarke 141.
05 vs PAK: Ponting 207.
05 vs NZ: Katich 118.
05 vs NZ: Martyn 165.
06 vs BAN: nil
06 vs ENG: Hussey 103; Clarke 135.

Now, I personally don't hold this against Gilchrist too much at all, because that's the nature of batting at number 7 for most of your career. But people bring up how when Sehwag makes a hundred that other batsmen tend to make hundreds in the same game (insinuating that it is a flat pitch). Well, fairly often other batsmen make hundreds in the same innings as Gilchrist, in the same conditions.

Added to that is that, though, is that Gilly came out plenty of times with Aus at 5/bugger-all. There were a quite few times where he'd cash in with Aus at 5/plenty too but I'd hazard that many of his knocks were rearguards with the one bloke at the other end who stood-up that day.

 

[Precambrian]

Added to that is that, though, is that Gilly came out plenty of times with Aus at 5/bugger-all. There were a quite few times where he'd cash in with Aus at 5/plenty too but I'd hazard that many of his knocks were rearguards with the one bloke at the other end who stood-up that day.

Instances please? I can remember the 149 vs Pakistan.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Added to that is that, though, is that Gilly came out plenty of times with Aus at 5/bugger-all. There were a quite few times where he'd cash in with Aus at 5/plenty too but I'd hazard that many of his knocks were rearguards with the one bloke at the other end who stood-up that day.

Going through the same stats:

99 vs PAK: 5/126
01 vs IND: 5/99
01 vs ENG: 5/336
01 vs NZ: 5/260 (having just lost 5/34, and were then 6/263)
02 vs SA: 5/293
02 vs SA: 5/176
03 vs ENG: 5/150
03 vs WI: 3/371
03 vs ZIM: 5/502
04 vs SL: 1/11 (trailing by 90 on first innings, having been bowled out for 120)
04 vs NZ: 6/423
05 vs PAK: 4/318
05 vs NZ: 6/201(nightwatchman used)
05 vs NZ: 5/247 (would describe NZ as being on top in this situation)
06 vs BAN: 5/97
06 vs ENG: 5/365

Also the fact that it's not only the times that he got 100s, but also when he'd get 40 to 90 to give the side something to bowl to.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Sehwag's co-centurians

[B]Runs	Pos	Opposition	Ground		Start Date	Co-centurians[/B]
105	6	v South Africa	Bloemfontein	03-Nov-01	Tendulkar
106	2	v England	Nottingham	08-Aug-02	None
147	2	v West Indies	Mumbai		09-Oct-02	Dravid
130	2	v New Zealand	Mohali		16-Oct-03	Laxman
195	2	v Australia	Melbourne	26-Dec-03	None
309	2	v Pakistan	Multan		28-Mar-04	Tendulkar
155	2	v Australia	Chennai		14-Oct-04	None
164	1	v South Africa	Kanpur		20-Nov-04	None
173	2	v Pakistan	Mohali		08-Mar-05	None
201	2	v Pakistan	Bangalore	24-Mar-05	None
254	1	v Pakistan	Lahore		13-Jan-06	Dravid
180	2	v West Indies	Gros Islet	10-Jun-06	Dravid, Kaif
151	1	v Australia	Adelaide	24-Jan-08	None
319	2	v South Africa	Chennai		26-Mar-08	Dravid
201*	2	v Sri Lanka	Galle		31-Jul-08	None

That's amazing. 8 centuries where no other Indian scored a 100 in the innings.

'Tis a great effort. I think the stat that others have referred to, moreso earlier in his career, was the number of centuries made in that game as well and how a lot of those matches ended up in draws. The inference being that he was making them on flat tracks.

Personally, not an issue for me. And especially over the past couple of years, he's done a lot to refute that.

 

[Anil]

I agree that it's arguable. I think Gilchrist was slightly better though.



It doesn't have anything to do with bias. If you are looking at their averages and wish to be statistical about it you must look at these kind of discrepancies.

Player A may average 30 against 9 teams and average 100 against the 10th team and take his average to 40.

Player B may average 44 against 9 teams and average 20 against the 10th team and bring his average to 39.

On the whole, it looks like Player A was more successful than Player B, but in reality it is Player B who had more success - if you measure success in that he had the consistency to score higher against a broader range of opponents.

Gilchrist v Flower is not as stark as that but it's certainly a big difference when because of one team a player rises/falls 5-8 points in his career average.

your arguments are very similar to that of kazo....

 

[Ikki]

your arguments are very similar to that of kazo....

That's because I am kazo.

 

[Demon43]

Mate ur an idiot if sangakkara wasnt a good bat he would have test double hundreds

For me it comes down to three wicket keepers

Gilchrist, Flower and Sangakara..

Gilchrit.. i really enjoyed watching this guy. i mean he could do wonders whether it was Test one day or even twenty 20. despite his averages of 46, at times he wouldn't be that reliable..

Sangakara.. The only problem with him is when he plays as a wicket keeper he doesn't bat well.. so i think despite his wonderful wicket keeping skills ( i still belive that he is the best wicket keeper right now) i much rather have him play as a batsman rather than wicket keeper batsman.. He is more reliable that way..

Andy Flower.. i voted for him because of his average and he is more reliable than both Sanakara and Gilly.. through out his career he was the only fighter and played amazing innings.. not to forget some of them against much better bowling line up.

 

[Anil]

That's because I am kazo.

ok thanks for clearing that up, explains a lot...

 

[adharcric]

your arguments are very similar to that of kazo....

 

[vic_orthdox]

ok thanks for clearing that up, explains a lot...

Yeah, a name change was requested with solid reasoning, thus it was granted.