Who Is The Second Greatest Batsman Ever?

[Burgey]

Hold on, he reported the umpiring was terrible and not that bucknor was a conspirator against india right?

Further I find it laughable that captain become universally derided because he made the opposing captain to wait. Or because he showed his upper body naked in the holy shrine of cricket, the Lords balcony.

And the man he made to wait was the epitome of gentlemanly behaviour as well.

Is it a coincidence that the sty also happened to be our most succesful captain and the only captain to have hot under the skin of the best team then!

Nah, I thought Ganguly was an over-rated **** well before he became skipper.

 

[Cevno]

Cevno, I'm not privy to the captain's match reports on Bucknor, so I can't comment. As I've said, all I can give is my own personal perspective, and you can do what you like with it - reject, accept, ignore.

It has been pretty wide reported and Senior team sources even confirmed it. Even Ganguly confirmed it in a sarcastic way AND SO DID John Wright.
What i was trying to say was that there was a reason that only the indian's had so much trouble and problem with him and that Indian's only had a major problem with him when in fact their were poorer umpires like Asoka De Silva and others?
Tendulkar was given out wrongly on 3 occasions in the 1999 tour of australia including the shoulder before wicket. Did India complain as it did with Bucknor?
Tendulkar was also given a equally worse decision by Simon Taufel as by Steve Bucknor in Calcutta against pakistan ,but he was not almost in tears with anger as was in that instance.Neither was a senior figure in the team telling everyone in the media that he felt the said umpire was biased and made every bowler look world class.

I know u are giving your personal opinion and i respect it ,but in this case i disagree with u.

As for saying that some football referees and some judges are corrupt, you need to tread quite carefully. Yes, some football referees have been found to be corrupt, and yes some judges also. But it is a very very serious allegation to level at anyone. Are you going to suggest that Steve Bucknor is corrupt? If not, I'd leave those comparison alone (and if you are going to make that suggestion I would advise you to get some pretty compelling evidence before you do so).

Where did i level a accusation against anyone?

What i was trying to say was if referees/umpires/judges can be corrupt they can be biased too.It's pretty naive to think otherwise.

When umpires are making statements like this and others after they retire ,hard to believe they were not biased intentionally or unintentionally when they were officiating-

http://www.dnaindia.com/sport/report_darrell-hair-brands-afridi-a-serial-cheat_1343133

Leaving corruption to one side, let's turn to bias. Bias is much more common than corruption (you can't be subconsciously or accidentally corrupted, but that's not true of bias). But it is still a very serious allegation to make. The world would be a better place if people restrained themselves from flinging those sorts of allegations around quite as freely as sometimes happens. It's always better to give people the benefit of the doubt, and in Bucknor's case that means assuming that he's error-prone (some would say incompetent) rather than biased; an assumption which he readily proved correct in most matches I've ever seen him umpire, whether involving India or not.

It cannot be proven either way whether he was biased or not conclusively. And in such a scenario despite the accounts of many senior figures ,numerous instances, there will always a case of doubt .And this will always be as close to being conclusive as it gets.
So i think it will be fair to disagree on this ,specially now that Bucknor being retired can't cause anymore damage.
I think he was biased consciously or unconsciously u do not.

He was error prone ,u agree on that much though.Even that shows the ICC's uselessness when dealing with Steve Bucknor.
And even that supports rather than contradict the statemen that he caused India on many occasions and specially on two australian tours AND that his behavious in general towards India left lot to be desired.

 

[Cevno]

However, Dave Richardson, the general manager of cricket at the ICC, Bucknor's employer, indicated that his umpiring accuracy was 96% in 2005-06,[10] which was above the average of 94.8% for the Elite Panel as a whole. The definition of umpiring accuracy and the methodology used to determine the accuracy was not released by the ICC. In 2007, he was short-listed for the Umpire of the Year award, which was ultimately won by Simon Taufel.

Steve Bucknor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting then India always complained against one of the best umpires statistically again and again over a decade and a half and more.

This from the Sydney test in 2008.

On fourth day, Kumble was on hat-trick. Walked in Andrew Symonds, the biggest beneficiary of umpiring generosity in modern times. Kumble bowled an excellent googly which he failed to read. He was hit on the pads, right in front of the stumps. The ball, as hawkeye predicted (yes, hawkeye predicts, not “shows”, and it can go wrong) would have gone over the stumps (middle to be precise). Kumble appealed. Bucknor declined. Fine, excellent, competent umpiring, right? Hold on, the next moment, Bucknor confronted the Indian captain and said a few words with a hard face. Only Kumble knows what was said, but even an idiot can see it was a reprimand of sorts. Fine, umpires don’t like excessive appealing. And every umpire has a different line of what is excessive.

Day 5, Symonds bowls a ball that Dhoni offers no shot to (this was before he was given out for a similar non-shot). Dhoni is quite forward, the ball is turning squarely, and it’s just impossible to predict for either hawkeye or the umpire where it will go. Bucknor rules not out. Symonds appeals and appeals, and goes and gives Bucknor a harsh look. Bucknor, like a Pomeranian being growled at by a bull-dog, looks away.





..............
It was this sort of thing,the parthiv patel incident,the dravid that made indian players both ex and present think he was biased ,along with his continuos bad decisions against them.

 

[Sir Alex]

Nah, I thought Ganguly was an over-rated **** well before he became skipper.

I never rated him hugely for his batting, not atleast in tests.

But his legacy is that he inherited indian cricket in tatters post match fixing saga, one that could never win outside subc and converted that into a world beating unit. It takes some real balls to do that in a setup like india. Had he not been ****y, and instead toed a 'please all' attitude he'd please noone. A born leader.

 

[Cevno]

Nah, I thought Ganguly was an over-rated **** well before he became skipper.

I guess u didn't rate John Wright as well?

 

[zaremba]

However, Dave Richardson, the general manager of cricket at the ICC, Bucknor's employer, indicated that his umpiring accuracy was 96% in 2005-06,[10] which was above the average of 94.8% for the Elite Panel as a whole. The definition of umpiring accuracy and the methodology used to determine the accuracy was not released by the ICC. In 2007, he was short-listed for the Umpire of the Year award, which was ultimately won by Simon Taufel.

Steve Bucknor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting then India always complained against one of the best umpires statistically again and again over a decade and a half and more.

And by these measures what were his statistics in matches involving India? Do those statistics show whether the errors that he made tended to favour India or India's opposition, and if so by how much?

For me, the following post sums things up:

Of course I'm biased mate, and sadly very often wrong, I admit it. But I don't see conspiracy in every dodgy lbw or caught behind decision against my team (only some ).

Sometimes I perceive (as an outsider) that there's a massive victims complex in the culture of Indian cricket (not everyone obviously).

I may be completely wrong in that regard, and if I am so be it. But the level of conspiracy theory and stories of apparently being so hard done by and so often screwed over - very often reported as deliberate acts by either opponents or officials over so long, whenever there's been a defeat - staggers me.

Again, I may well be wrong in that perception, and if I am well I'm sorry. But as an outsider, there always seems an excuse, always a poor decision, always something nefarious by either opponent or umpire, when India has lost. Rarely that they were beaten fairly, and even more rarely an acknowledgement that the better team won. This was perhaps more so in the past than nowadays, and certainly India is not alone in that - heaven knows there are enough from my own country who think and sound the same. Of course that doesn't include 05, when we were robbed by Murray Mints (or so I reckon because when it comes to being whipped by the vastly superior English I am a very sore loser who loses touch with reality)!

But I'm finding the conspiracy theories and alleged anti-India bias is a bit like me really... beginning to get just a little old .

(you may notice that I have corrected one small mint-related section for accuracy.)

 

[Maximus0723]

Ganguly sucks.

 

[GotSpin]

Hold on, he reported the umpiring was terrible and not that bucknor was a conspirator against india right?

Further I find it laughable that captain become universally derided because he made the opposing captain to wait. Or because he showed his upper body naked in the holy shrine of cricket, the Lords balcony.

And the man he made to wait was the epitome of gentlemanly behaviour as well.

Is it a coincidence that the sty also happened to be our most succesful captain and the only captain to have hot under the skin of the best team then!

He basically implied that Bucknor was bias against India. I think that's fairly easy to see.

those are just some early examples. his behaviour got even worse post 2003.

Steve Waugh was a tough captain when playing, yes, but I don't believe he ever disrespected other players and opposing captains when not playing.

 

[GotSpin]

I never rated him hugely for his batting, not atleast in tests.

But his legacy is that he inherited indian cricket in tatters post match fixing saga, one that could never win outside subc and converted that into a world beating unit. It takes some real balls to do that in a setup like india. Had he not been ****y, and instead toed a 'please all' attitude he'd please noone. A born leader.

a born leader lol. yeah his behaviour was certainly that of a leader in 2005-07.

 

[Burgey]

I guess u didn't rate John Wright as well?

Wot?

 

[GotSpin]

So which other umpires have had the same complaints raised against them by this stupid sulker Ganguly who only blames umpires because his team loses games?

Not sure honestly, but like I said before, the issue is accusing Bucknor of bias rather than recognising that he was a poor officiator

 

[Burgey]

No one's denied the victim complex yet. I'd like to hear what people think, and whether it's something that may have held India back.

Just putting it out there.

 

[Maximus0723]

Steve Waugh was a tough captain when playing, yes, but I don't believe he ever disrespected other players and opposing captains when not playing.

So, why are we using Steve Waugh as ruler stick?

 

[GotSpin]

So, why are we using Steve Waugh as ruler stick?

I don't know. I didn't bring him up...

 

[Sir Alex]

He basically implied that Bucknor was bias against India. I think that's fairly easy to see.

those are just some early examples. his behaviour got even worse post 2003.

Steve Waugh was a tough captain when playing, yes, but I don't believe he ever disrespected other players and opposing captains when not playing.

I don't think he accused Bucknor of being biased, but did the right thing by complaining of his poor umpiring.

Exactly where did he disrespect others off field? Ganguly in fact clarified that making steve to wait was unintentional.

And what exactly did he do between 05 and 07? He lost his place owing to poor form, went back to domestic, got runs and made it back to in team, and justified that too.

He isn't perfect. But he isn't **** as made out to be here.

 

[Cevno]

Wot?

John Wright in Pakistan barged into Ranjan Madugalle's room as match referee,and complained to him about Bucknor's umpiring and claimed he was one-sided and his behaviour was not apt ,specially with patel.

 

[satyam]

No one's denied the victim complex yet. I'd like to hear what people think, and whether it's something that may have held India back.

Just putting it out there.

And what about Punter. The biggest victim of all. Cried when was run out by Gary pratt in Ashes test. Cried in India at Bangalore test 2008, that India was using delaying tactics. Despite the fact that they took only 4 wickets in 83 overs. And there are many more.

 

[GotSpin]

And what about Punter. The biggest victim of all. Cried when was run out by Gary pratt in Ashes test. Cried in India at Bangalore test 2008, that India was using delaying tactics. Despite the fact that they took only 4 wickets in 83 overs. And there are many more.

Do you even know what victim complex means? You've just listed a number of things that not only totally miss the point, but you still haven't addressed the original question

 

[satyam]

Do you even know what victim complex means? You've just listed a number of things that not only totally miss the point, but you still haven't addressed the original question

Yes i know it. Saying India plays victim card against Bucknor is similar to saying jews play victim card against Nazi. The fact that his decision ensured Your team's win does not hide the fact.

 

[GotSpin]

Yes i know it. Saying India plays victim card against Bucknor is similar to saying jews play victim card against Nazi. The fact that his decision ensured Your team's win does not hide the fact.

What? No it's not. What a disgusting comparison.

Stop trying to avoid the question and issue at hand by attacking Australian players who really have nothing to do with it.