Who is the greatest Englishman never to win the Ashes?

[Richard]

You mean saying that he might be a bit better than Franklin, Martin, Mills, Maharoof and Malinga means I was saying he'd make NZ or SL a better side?
Rubbish.
Just being a tiny bit better than those bowlers certainly wouldn't make either team better.

 

[marc71178]

How did I guess you'd now change the definition of something that was clearly stated?

 

[Pothas]

You mean saying that he might be a bit better than Franklin, Martin, Mills, Maharoof and Malinga means I was saying he'd make NZ or SL a better side?
Rubbish.
Just being a tiny bit better than those bowlers certainly wouldn't make either team better.

Well surley it would. If he is even a tiny bit better than any of the others he would make the side a tiny bit better? Meaning that Harmisson would improve some test sides.

 

[luckyeddie]

I am surprised that no-one has mentioned the obvious candidate for the honour of Greatest Englishman never to have won the Ashes

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Sir James Dewar.

Now, in common with so many great English cricketers of past and present (Ranjitsinhji, The Nawab of Pataudi Sr, Ted Dexter, Colin Cowdrey, Tanny Grig, Basil D'Oliveira, Devon Malcolm, Nasser Hussain, Andrew Strauss, Vikram Solanki and the greatest of them all, Geraint Jones), he became English by association, in much the same way as Andrew Symonds became Australian (no, I don't mean 'got drunk and woke up there').

Sir James Dewar was not English by birth, having had the misfortune to first see the light of day in some bog in Scotland in 1842 (that's nearly a quarter to seven), but seeing as someone down here had to clean up the mess after he popped his clogs 81 years later, together with the undisputed fact that he invented the greatest device known to man apart from the Bill Frindall patent scorecard and assorted 144 coloured pens, English he is and English he will stay (for the sake of this article anyway).

So what is this great invention, I hear you asking, that is worthy of such an accolade for its creator (a much more noble word and fitting for a man of such Godly qualities)?

The Vacuum Flask, of course (no, it wasn't invented by Mr T.Hermos) - and without it, the world would not be the same. Such a simple device, designed to keep hot things hot and cold things cold - how does it know?

I've got two cups of coffee and a choc-ice in mine.

 

[Richard]

How did I guess you'd now change the definition of something that was clearly stated?

Err, when did I say anything contrary?
How is being a fraction better than those utterly useless bowlers going to improve any side?

 

[Richard]

Well surley it would. If he is even a tiny bit better than any of the others he would make the side a tiny bit better? Meaning that Harmisson would improve some test sides.

No, not really.
You have to be quite a bit better, as far as I can see, to make a side better - especially sides as rubbish as NZ's Test side.

 

[tooextracool]

oh boy...LE said that he cant think of a time when Englands bowling depth has been so deep, he has watched the game for 41 years, I think his opinion has to have some credit.

Probably any team apart from WI in there fast bowling pomp would struggle if 2 of their top bowlers were injured, the good thing for England is pretty much any one of the four can be used as a strike bowler if there is a need

England at full strength have 4 bowlers who are of genuine ability,and work brilliantly as a team ...as yet Plunkett and Tremlett are unproven but undoubtedly have ability, and Anderson is always hovering around always threatening to bowl like he did back a few years ago,and last week.

That represnts a pretty healthy stock of pace bowlers IMO

im sorry, what is this ability that plunkett possesses? if anything everytime i see him i wonder how someone who looks so ordinary can be selected despite having such a poor domestic record.

 

[tooextracool]

You rate Bravo, Collins AND Collymore as better than Harmison?

Clearly I am crazy. Ignore list for you - I've just had enough of your insane ramblings, you fool.

err collins is most certainly a better bowler than harmison.

 

[Swervy]

im sorry, what is this ability that plunkett possesses? if anything everytime i see him i wonder how someone who looks so ordinary can be selected despite having such a poor domestic record.

Look , the guy can put the ball on the pitch at over 80mph....that abilty for me (well compared to me that is )

bare in mind he has a vastly better record at domestic level than Simon Jones did (in fact probably still does), and considering the lad isnt even 21 yet, I think over 100 wickets in domestic cricket is a pretty good start to a career,

 

[tooextracool]

Look , the guy can put the ball on the pitch at over 80mph....that abilty for me (well compared to me that is )

bare in mind he has a vastly better record at domestic level than Simon Jones did (in fact probably still does), and considering the lad isnt even 21 yet, I think over 100 wickets in domestic cricket is a pretty good start to a career,

believe it or not age and pace does not mean that someone has ability. plunkett can barely land a ball on the right spot, has absolutely no variety in his bowling and has never shown any form of success in tests, ODIs, list A or FC cricket.
and just because SP jones succeeded in test matches with a poor domestic record it doesnt mean that everyone else will. SP jones though actually had plenty of potential given that he's been able to reverse swing the ball both ways for quite a while, something almost unheard of in international cricket.

 

[luckyeddie]

err collins is most certainly a better bowler than harmison.

I'm not going to get into this stupid 'comparing players' rubbish with anyone, least of all someone who frequently starts a comment with 'err'.

So many similarities between you and Richard.

 

[tooextracool]

I'm not going to get into this stupid 'comparing players' rubbish with anyone, least of all someone who frequently starts a comment with 'err'.

So many similarities between you and Richard.

well if you arent then you shouldnt put Harmison down as being categorically better than collins when theres no evidence of that.

 

[Richard]

Nor, for that matter, is there with Bravo, who's not a dissimilar bowler to Collins.

 

[tooextracool]

Nor, for that matter, is there with Bravo, who's not a dissimilar bowler to Collins.

Collins has far more variety and is a far more capable bowler than Bravo at the respective stages of their career.

 

[luckyeddie]

well if you arent then you shouldnt put Harmison down as being categorically better than collins when theres no evidence of that.

Why the hell not?

His economy rate, strike rate and number of wickets per test match have been consistently higher throughout his career - the latter two by a considerable amount. All right, I appreciate that Collins hasn't had the advantage of being able to play against the West Indies, but his figeres have shown exactly the same tendency to inprove dramatically against the other sides of lesser merit.

Even if it were complete and utter rubbish, the odds are it would make far more sense than much of the codswollop I've read about Harmison not getting into any one of the other test sides.

Anyway, enough of this gay banter.

 

[Richard]

Collins has far more variety and is a far more capable bowler than Bravo at the respective stages of their career.

I've seen neither extensively but I've certainly seen evidence that Bravo has more than a few tricks up his sleeve.

 

[Richard]

Even if it were complete and utter rubbish, the odds are it would make far more sense than much of the codswollop I've read about Harmison not getting into any one of the other test sides.

Err, when did I say that?
I said he'd not improve any of them.