Who is the greatest Englishman never to win the Ashes?

[GIMH]

I recently read Graham Thorpe's autobiography (cracking read by the way - and do those concerned want me to write a review??) and it struck me, that there were many very, very good players for England in the 90s, who just happened to be amongst some very mediocre ones. And throughout history, Australia have held the Ashes for some long periods, better players than Ian Bell and Geraint Jones* never managed to beat the Aussies. But who was the best to miss out on English cricket's finest honour?

In my time I can only focus on the last period of Aussie rule, 89-03, in that time Atherton, Hussain, Butcher, Thorpe, Stewart, Gough, Caddick have all managed to miss out on the big prize. There must be those of you far more knowledgeable on the game's history to tell me who the best was. I can't make a decision.

Of them all, of course, I would count Thorpe to be the unluckiest, given that his test career ran right up to the Ashes.

But who was the best, ever, not to play in a successful Ashes series?

*disclaimer - I know my screen name is GeraintIsMyhero, but er, well, I have my reasons anyhow and it certainly doesn't mean i think he's the greatest cricketer alive or anything LOL

 

[Autobahn]

The best English bowler by a long shot is darren Gough.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Charles Darwin, maybe Churchill... not sure.

 

[andyc]

Charles Darwin, maybe Churchill... not sure.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

I laff'd

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Who is the greatest Englishman never to win the Ashes?

Rob Key.

 

[wpdavid]

Ted Dexter
Ken Barrington
Chris Lewis

 

[wpdavid]

The other guy who no-one's mentioned yet is Gus Fraser. Admittedly not an alltime great, but still a very fine bowler.

 

[Goughy]

Not one of the recent guys mentioned on the list should be in the same sentance as the word great. All good-decent cricketers and pros but a long way from ever being remotely in the upper echelons of test players.

I don't think any deserve our sympathy.

If looking recently the best to miss out IMO is Angus Fraser. Only genuine world class bowler Eng has in the 90s

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Charles Darwin, maybe Churchill... not sure.

Meh. I saw the thread title and was going to say "George Orwell". Way to steal my thunder.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Ted Dexter
Ken Barrington
Chris Lewis

Wow. Genuinely didn't know about the first two, makes sense tho as we drew a blank in the 60s when they were in their pomp.

& I presume you jest about Master Lewis?!

 

[wpdavid]

Wow. Genuinely didn't know about the first two, makes sense tho as we drew a blank in the 60s when they were in their pomp.

& I presume you jest about Master Lewis?!

As you say, we didn't win an Ashes series in the 60's, which got me thinking about that generation. Dexter played in the disasterous 1958/9 series, but probably wishes he hadn't. I think one of them might actually have played before 1956, but missed out on Laker's series for whatever reason.

Pre-WW2, I'm struggling to think of anyone. There may be someone who first appeared after Bodyline but didn't last until 1953. Perhaps someone else can check that out.

As for Lewis, what are you saying ??

 

[Richard]

The other guy who no-one's mentioned yet is Gus Fraser. Admittedly not an alltime great, but still a very fine bowler.

A better English Test bowler since Bob Willis there has not been.
Though Hoggard looks like he just might be on-track to become even better.

 

[Richard]

As for Lewis, what are you saying ??

That he wasn't, really, that good?
There was surely a better all-rounder even in his own time - in DeFreitas.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

A better English Test bowler since Bob Willis there has not been.
Though Hoggard looks like he just might be on-track to become even better.

Do you not think Flintoff is fast becoming the best since Willis? Over the last two years or so Fred has been superb with the ball.

Big fan of Fraser though, and but for his injury he'd have been right up there.

 

[Autobahn]

Do you not think Flintoff is fast becoming the best since Willis? Over the last two years or so Fred has been superb with the ball.

Big fan of Fraser though, and but for his injury he'd have been right up there.

For 'Willis' read 'Botham'

 

[Swervy]

For 'Willis' read 'Botham'

I have to agree with that...Bothams peak was about as good as anyone for England as a pacer since Truemans best years...and I would say Bothams peak was after Willis'...so I would say that Flintoff is probably England best pace bowler on a consistant basis since Bothams best years.

I do think Hoggard could challenge as well..and I really do think if Jones could stay healthy he as the ability challenge as well...and then again, I think Harmison could still be the type of bowler who will actually win a lot more games for England in the future.

Simply put, England hasnt had a pace attack like this...well..since when???? At least 25 years!!!!!

 

[wpdavid]

That he (Lewis) wasn't, really, that good?
There was surely a better all-rounder even in his own time - in DeFreitas.

And there I was thinking that, given the original question, and given my listing CCL with Dexter & Barrington, it was obvious that I wasn't being entirely serious...

 

[wpdavid]

I have to agree with that...Bothams peak was about as good as anyone for England as a pacer since Truemans best years...and I would say Bothams peak was after Willis'...so I would say that Flintoff is probably England best pace bowler on a consistant basis since Bothams best years.

I do think Hoggard could challenge as well..and I really do think if Jones could stay healthy he as the ability challenge as well...and then again, I think Harmison could still be the type of bowler who will actually win a lot more games for England in the future.

Simply put, England hasnt had a pace attack like this...well..since when???? At least 25 years!!!!!

Slightly longer, I would say. Go back to the late 70's when Willis was absolutely at his peak, and Hendrick, Old & Lever were still very good, plus Botham had just emerged.

 

[luckyeddie]

Simply put, England hasnt had a pace attack like this...well..since when???? At least 25 years!!!!!

As far as strength in depth, backup and the like?

Well, I've been watching the game keenly for 41 years, and the pool is as deep if not deeper now than at any time since I've been watching.

Then again, it's rare we've ever had more than 2 top quality seamers at a time - Botham and Willis, Higgs and Snow, Old and Lever, Arnold and Schwarzenegger, that's about it.