Who is the best post war English opening batsman?

[wpdavid]

A glance at Amiss' figures suggests he did excellently against the West Indies just before they were a great team - three tons in a series against Julien, Gibbs and Sobers - but hit a wall when the West Indies and Australian pace bowling kicked up a gear in the mid 70s.

I liked Amiss a lot; along with Greig, he was my favourite England player from that era. Although we could question the standard of attacks against whom he scored heavily, he was still way more productive than any other England batsman of the time. As well as his heroics against WI, he played some almighty innings in the SC; again, far more so than his contempories in the England side. And I've always been inclined to forgive him for his failures in the 1974/75 Ashes simply because otherwise we may as well write off some very big names in the WI side that was similarly hammered 12 months later. None of which makes him a better batsman than Boycott, but he's up there with our finest post-WW2 openers.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

At the time Amiss was dropped to make way for Geoff Boycott to return he was still the second best opener in England, but Mike Brearley had just been appointed captain that summer so undeservedly took the other opening spot. Amiss then joined the Packer Circus otherwise he would surely have made the winter tour given how paper thin the batting was. Likewise early in 1978 Barry Wood was selected and his credentials as a Test player were zero, so Amiss might well have played then.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Before my time but late 70's seem similar to now in that we had 7 or 8 proper test players and a few spuds making up the numbers.

 

[Burgey]

I liked Amiss a lot; along with Greig, he was my favourite England player from that era. Although we could question the standard of attacks against whom he scored heavily, he was still way more productive than any other England batsman of the time. As well as his heroics against WI, he played some almighty innings in the SC; again, far more so than his contempories in the England side. And I've always been inclined to forgive him for his failures in the 1974/75 Ashes simply because otherwise we may as well write off some very big names in the WI side that was similarly hammered 12 months later. None of which makes him a better batsman than Boycott, but he's up there with our finest post-WW2 openers.

Greig's ton at Brisbane in 74-75 was one of the greatest counter-attacking hundreds of all time.

 

[Burgey]

I think it's Boycott or Gooch tbh, though Cook is in with a more than decent shout.

 

[Kirkut]

Cook is the best England batsman against spin bowling, Boycott was a better player of moving ball than Cook but was Boycott the best from England in playing lateral movement? Hard to say.

So Cook for me considering his ability to play spin and make big scores in Asia.

 

[wpdavid]

Cook is the best England batsman against spin bowling, Boycott was a better player of moving ball than Cook but was Boycott the best from England in playing lateral movement? Hard to say.

So Cook for me considering his ability to play spin and make big scores in Asia.

It's hard to say because Boycott barely played in the SC. Just one tour right at the end of his career IIRC.
However, he did play most of his domestic cricket on uncovered wickets. And legend has it that he was the one England batsman able to read Gleeson's leg spin in 1970/71.

 

[Burgey]

Cook is the best England batsman against spin bowling, Boycott was a better player of moving ball than Cook but was Boycott the best from England in playing lateral movement? Hard to say.

So Cook for me considering his ability to play spin and make big scores in Asia.

You should never be considered a better opener because you can play spin well, if you have a far greater propensity to nick off against the new ball than the others in consideration.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

It's hard to say because Boycott barely played in the SC. Just one tour right at the end of his career IIRC.
However, he did play most of his domestic cricket on uncovered wickets. And legend has it that he was the one England batsman able to read Gleeson's leg spin in 1970/71.

He went on that wretched tour of Pakistan in 1977/78 and averaged over 80. Then averaged mid-40's in India what turned out to be his last ever Test series. The reason given for him opting out of previous tours of India was that he didn't have a spleen and was susceptible to illness and couldn't eat the food. He wasn't alone in opting out of SC tours though.

 

[wpdavid]

He went on that wretched tour of Pakistan in 1977/78 and averaged over 80. Then averaged mid-40's in India what turned out to be his last ever Test series. The reason given for him opting out of previous tours of India was that he didn't have a spleen and was susceptible to illness and couldn't eat the food. He wasn't alone in opting out of SC tours though.

Missing them was seen as a sort of perk of being one of the senior players until the mid-1970s, wasn't it.

And yeah,I had forgotten about the 1977 tour of Pakistan.

 

[fredfertang]

And legend has it that he was the one England batsman able to read Gleeson's leg spin in 1970/71.

Was that the story about his not telling any of the other England batsmen how to do read him?

 

[wpdavid]

Was that the story about his not telling any of the other England batsmen how to do read him?

That's the one.

 

[DanJamson]

Trescothick was the best to watch.

 

[mr_mister]

to defend Atherton a bit you don't even need to mention the dodgy back (cheap and vague argument)


His batting average against both Wasim/Waqar and Donald/Pollock was very respectable, averaged over 40 against both sides with a large sample size (he sure did fit a lot of tests into 12 year career)


His average against Ambrose/Walsh and McGrath/Warne was bad, yes. But he still got a buckletload of runs. He tonned up 4 times against the Windies, and got 0 not outs. Yes Ambrose got him out many, many times. But it wasn't always in his opening spell like some historians would make you believe. Atherton gave his own back on many occasions. And took the shine off the new ball like a pro, as well as short stuff to his body.


It's harder to defend his record against Australia. He did cross fifty 16 times, but a lot of those innings were in the first half of his career, before Warne and McGrath were in their prime. It's unfortunate that he didn't really do anything in his final 3 ashes series, in 97, 98/99 and 01. One halfway decent performance(think he got a lone fifty in all 3 of em) in even one of those series and who knows how different his reputation would be.

 

[Kirkut]

I always felt that Atherton was too defensive for his own good, he would have averaged better if he was slightly more free in his batting.

 

[Starfighter]

Yeah, something along the lines of Atherton ct †Healy b McGrath 8 (4) would have looked much better than Atherton ct †Healy b McGrath 0 (4).

 

[Flametree]

For those saying the list isn't that great, to be fair, for the first 10 years of the post-war period, England had Hutton and Washbrook, who weren't a bad pair... Subba Row and Pullar were pretty good too.

It's hard to know what to make of Amiss - he played just 11 tests in the 6 years after his debut, averaging about 21. Then had two amazing years, before running into Lillee and Thomson. He averaged 65 for two years of his career, and about 30 for the other eight. 8 of his 11 100's were 150+. He was also England's best batsman in the early years of ODIs.

 

[watson]

Here's why Hutton and Boycott were so good relative to Cook;

 

[Lillian Thomson]

For those saying the list isn't that great, to be fair, for the first 10 years of the post-war period, England had Hutton and Washbrook, who weren't a bad pair... Subba Row and Pullar were pretty good too.

It's hard to know what to make of Amiss - he played just 11 tests in the 6 years after his debut, averaging about 21. Then had two amazing years, before running into Lillee and Thomson. He averaged 65 for two years of his career, and about 30 for the other eight. 8 of his 11 100's were 150+. He was also England's best batsman in the early years of ODIs.

That's a good point re Hutton. The vast majority of his career was post War and he knocks the rest into oblivion - including Sir Geoffrey.

 

[Victor Ian]

Here's why Hutton and Boycott were so good relative to Cook;

that one drew a real life lol from me