Who is the best limited over spinner of all time

[The_CricketUmpire]

Yeah. He held the record for fastest 100 wickets. Don't know if he still has it. He even used to routinely bowl at death. Absolute legend in ODI cricket.

Plus he was a good bowler in Test cricket too - averaged under 30 (29.83), which is excellent for a finger spinner. I actually rate him a better off-spinner/finger spinner than Nathan Lyon in my opinion. He had more variety and was lethal.

 

[Chin Music]

Surprised no mention to Daniel Vettori. Probably not the most exciting bowler in view but a career record economy rate of a lick over four runs per over is crazy, even for the 00s.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Plus he was a good bowler in Test cricket too - averaged under 30 (29.83), which is excellent for a finger spinner. I actually rate him a better off-spinner/finger spinner than Nathan Lyon in my opinion. He had more variety and was lethal.

He's way better than Nathan Lyon

 

[trundler]

Vettori has 17 more wickets than Saqlain in 126 more matches lmao. Hogg and Tahir enter the discussion way before him, probably somebody like Zampa or Qadir does too.

 

[Jumno]

Qadir? Doshi? Shivaramakrishnan? Venkat? Boje? Strang?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Vettori has 17 more wickets than Saqlain in 126 more matches lmao.

Very different types of bowlers though. Vettori was very good at what he did, even in the era where ODI scores started getting real big you could usually count on him for a 10 over spell of 30 to 40 runs, which is especially impressive when you consider the small kiwi grounds he was often playing on. Wickets were a bonus.

Could be I'm a bit biased here because Aus were such bad players of spin compared to seam when I was watching and it made him look a lot better than the other NZ bowlers by comparison in most the games I watched

 

[trundler]

Very different types of bowlers though. Vettori was very good at what he did, even in the era where ODI scores started getting real big you could usually count on him for a 10 over spell of 30 to 40 runs, which is especially impressive when you consider the small kiwi grounds he was often playing on. Wickets were a bonus.

Could be I'm a bit biased here because Aus were such bad players of spin compared to seam when I was watching and it made him look a lot better than the other NZ bowlers by comparison in most the games I watched

This is true but he also exclusively bowled the middle overs (before ODIs became extended T20s) so his ER isn't that great. My memory of him, mostly in his last 5 years tbf, is that he bowled some quite overs without looking threatening. That's no slight on him, he was a containing spinner primarily but I think that makes him inherently worse than a good attacking spinner, provided the latter isn't a complete faucet. Vettori was good at what he did but I don't really think he's in the running here.

 

[Chin Music]

Very different types of bowlers though. Vettori was very good at what he did, even in the era where ODI scores started getting real big you could usually count on him for a 10 over spell of 30 to 40 runs, which is especially impressive when you consider the small kiwi grounds he was often playing on. Wickets were a bonus.

Could be I'm a bit biased here because Aus were such bad players of spin compared to seam when I was watching and it made him look a lot better than the other NZ bowlers by comparison in most the games I watched

That was partially where I was coming from. Not only did he have such an impressive economy rate, he wasn't playing in Asia anywhere near as much as say Saqlain.

 

[TheJediBrah]

This is true but he also exclusively bowled the middle overs (before ODIs became extended T20s) so his ER isn't that great. My memory of him, mostly in his last 5 years tbf, is that he bowled some quite overs without looking threatening. That's no slight on him, he was a containing spinner primarily but I think that makes him inherently worse than a good attacking spinner, provided the latter isn't a complete faucet. Vettori was good at what he did but I don't really think he's in the running here.

That's all very fair. Opposition teams did also tend to sit on him and target the rest of NZ's bowling (which wasn't very good). I don't really think he's in the running either just wanted to point out that comparing him and Saqlain on a metric like wickets per match isn't ideal considering their different modi operandi

 

[Chin Music]

I would also say that I don't think Vettori was outright the best limited overs spinner, but someone with such a fine economy rate, who actually did have a very high ranking (not that it meant too much) seems a little underrated in the wider picture. Of course there were more destructive bowlers who ragged the ball more. After he had back injuries he bowled with a very front on action and had less opportunity to drift and spin the ball as much as he would in his prime. That said, he wasn't a very big spinner of the ball even earlier in his career from what I recall.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

This is true but he also exclusively bowled the middle overs (before ODIs became extended T20s) so his ER isn't that great. My memory of him, mostly in his last 5 years tbf, is that he bowled some quite overs without looking threatening.

He hardly played in his last 5 years (only 24 matches in the 5 years from 2011-2015) as he was (semi) retired for a big chunk of that before playing in the 2015 World Cup. Nathan McCullum was NZ's ODI spinner for most of that period.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

That's all very fair. Opposition teams did also tend to sit on him and target the rest of NZ's bowling (which wasn't very good).

Shane Bond (if available) was was one of the best of all time and Kyle Mills was world class.

For 90+% of Vettori's career the problem for NZ was batting rather than bowling.

During Vettori's career NZ had better ODI seam bowlers than every team except Australia, South Africa, and perhaps Pakistan.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Bond almost never played and Mills was serviceable at best

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Mills was serviceable at best

He was consistently one of the 5 ODI bowlers in the world

 

[TheJediBrah]

Blatant chucker too

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Blatant chucker too

Agree, but so was Binga Lee and he was a great ODI bowler.

 

[trundler]

NZ had too many bits and pieces players around that time so they weren't solid in either batting or bowling.

He was consistently one of the 5 ODI bowlers in the world

Must be the same glitch that has Haze in the top 5 currently.

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

He's way better than Nathan Lyon

I agree. I guess Lyon does have longevity which Saqlain didn't have but yeah in my opinion - Saqlain the better bowler.

On a side note, Saqlain also scored a Test hundred too lol

 

[TheJediBrah]

Longevity is way too overrated. So often it's just a matter of circumstance. Like Mark Boucher keeping for South Africa. Nothing special as a Test player there was just no one else. Nathan Lyon is the same

 

[Daemon]

If we're allowing chucking then Saeed Ajmal warrants a mention. Narine too before he got caught. T20I economies of 6.36 and 6.01 respectively lol. Both WI and Pakistan's WT20 wins are tainted by them.