Who is the best leg spinner after Warne?

[Muloghonto]

Best legspinner after Warne is one Subhash Gupte.
I tend not to rate the spinners of pre WWII era very highly. As someone who's played a lot of cricket in Canada, bowling on uncovered wickets as a spinner is much, much easier than on wickets that get rolled & covered every day.
That being said, I'd rate the leg spinners in history as:

1. Warne
2. Gupte
3. Chandrasekhar
4. Kumble
5. O'Reilley
6. Benaud
7. Grimmett
8. Qadir
9. Mushie
10. Kaneria

 

[watson]

Mushtaq Mohammed was a useful leg-spinner who got some useful wickets. Number 9 on an ATG list is way too high for him.. Mushtaq Ahmed was a lot better, but I'm not sure that he deserves to be on the list either. Are there are any more Mushie Mushtaqs that I'm not aware of?

 

[Muloghonto]

Mushtaq Mohammed was a useful leg-spinner who got some useful wickets. Number 9 on an ATG list is way too high for him.. Mushtaq Ahmed was a lot better, but I'm not sure that he deserves to be on the list either. Are there are any more Mushie Mushtaqs that I'm not aware of?

By mushie,i meant Mushtaq Ahmed, not Mushtaq Mohammed ( who i've not even heard of!).
I think he deserves to be on the list because there are not that many quality leg spinners through the history of the sport and Mushie did better against the Indians most of the time he bowled than Warney did. he was underrated but he had the best googly I've seen and I've seen Qadir bowl too.

 

[watson]

By mushie,i meant Mushtaq Ahmed, not Mushtaq Mohammed ( who i've not even heard of!).
I think he deserves to be on the list because there are not that many quality leg spinners through the history of the sport and Mushie did better against the Indians most of the time he bowled than Warney did. he was underrated but he had the best googly I've seen and I've seen Qadir bowl too.

Fair enough. I think that it's a shame that the Pakistani selectors dropped Mushtaq too early because they couldn't find room for him and Saqlain. Mushtaq deserved a longer career I reckon.

 

[fredfertang]

Both Mushies were good bowlers, as was dear old Intikhab, who was the first leggie I ever had a good look at

 

[Muloghonto]

Oh, now i get it. Mushtaq Mohammed as in 'little Hanif'.

 

[the big bambino]

I think there is a misconception about uncovered wickets. Often the term is used to mean poor or bowler friendly wickets. That is not true. It just means pitches left open to the elements. But these pitches could be true or even roads as per the reputation of many pitches in Australia and England (especially btwn the wars but in the golden age too).

 

[Muloghonto]

I have played on plenty of uncovered wickets in canada as well as covered wickets in India, there is simply no comparison. Bowling on uncovered wickets is a dream, especially for a spinner because uncovered wickets almost always get more uneven bounce than covered ones.
But yes, you are right- an uncovered St.John's pitch wont make it more menacing than Port of Spain's covered pitch but it does make it significantly easier for spinners to operate on.

 

[the big bambino]

While I respect your experience it is irrelevant to the conditions prevailing pre war. Especially in Australia where games were timeless and pitches lasted the best part of a week. Given the choice a bowler would much prefer to bowl on wicket covered against the elements that begins green and naturally deteriorates rather than one that is a road throughout where you wait at the pleasure of the heavens for any assistance assuming that you are bowling at the time or if it comes at all.

 

[Muloghonto]

While I respect your experience it is irrelevant to the conditions prevailing pre war. Especially in Australia where games were timeless and pitches lasted the best part of a week. Given the choice a bowler would much prefer to bowl on wicket covered against the elements that begins green and naturally deteriorates rather than one that is a road throughout where you wait at the pleasure of the heavens for any assistance assuming that you are bowling at the time or if it comes at all.

I highly doubt you or I or anyone here is actually qualified to compare and contrast soil conditions prevalent before WWII to that today.
All i am saying is that for any wicket, the moment you leave it uncovered, it starts favouring spinners the longer the matches go on. I've experienced this myself too many times to dismiss this as just a coincidence.

 

[the big bambino]

You're right, neither of us are. However the men who played on them and wrote of their experience are. As are the critics who observed them. Unfortunately they don't share your opinion. Perhaps we should both defer to their judgement.

 

[Muloghonto]

You're right, neither of us are. However the men who played on them and wrote of their experience are. As are the critics who observed them. Unfortunately they don't share your opinion. Perhaps we should both defer to their judgement.

I am yet to find a single person who's played cricket on uncovered pitches and covered pitches who wouldn't say uncovered pitches tend to favour spinners more. And I've played cricket with some fine west Indian former players in North America. I tend not to care much about opinions of 'critics' as much as those of the players in the 'here and now' because while opinions are like buttholes (everyone has one), it tends to matter more when you speak of first hand experience

 

[the big bambino]

Your post is quite ironic when you consider you are stacking up your butthole (sorry opinion) ahead of the experiences of players and cricket writers of the era. Men like Bradman, Syd Barnes, Noble, Hill, O'Reilly, Grimmett, Allen, Larwood, Hobbs, Sutcliffe to name a few. Publications like Wisden and many fine critics and writers represented by the likes of Cardus and Robertson Glasgow. Thank you for your own input. I'll notify the publishers of those articles written by those men and almanacks and ask them to issue a correction immediately.

 

[Migara]

Uncovered wickets should lose their moisture faster than covered pitches. The result will depend on how much moisture it initially had.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Uncovered wickets should lose their moisture faster than covered pitches. The result will depend on how much moisture it initially had.

and they also gain moisture a whole lot easier.

 

[archie mac]

Warne is the greatest leg spinner ever.Even if you wear the most biased of glasses,no one can argue against Warne being the best leg spinner the game has ever seen.

But who is the 2nd best?Qadir?Kumble?Anyone else?

Discuss.

I think Tiger better than Warne, but that's just me; and Bradman too

 

[Prince EWS]

.. but that's just me ..

No it's not.

 

[archie mac]

No it's not.

Champion

 

[Migara]

and they also gain moisture a whole lot easier.

I thought that was self explanatory.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

I thought that was self explanatory.

Well if it was, then the meaning of your sentence is completely changed.