Who is the Best "Cricketer" Ever?

[the big bambino]

Pollock... His record against Australia wasn't that good, but that team was just ridiculously great. I don't think too many great bowlers in the 90s did that well against Australia statsistically. Waqar struggled, Donald was merely ok, Walsh produced nothing of note against them bar a couple of great spells. Yet, it's Pollock who's being singled out? meh

True. A different and more generous criteria should be used when a reviewing bowler's record against a strong batting opponent. As Aus became as it waxed, peaked and waned over the 2 decades btwn 90-2009. Maybe a bowling average of 35 is passable.

Australia's batting strength in the era dominated by Bradman btwn wars was comparatively strong. Just below the 90-2009 modern era without Bradman but better with him.

Pakistan, SA and the WI fielded these bowlers to face Aus btwn 90-2009: Akram, Waqar, Shoaib, Imran, Mushie, Saqlain, Amir, Asif, Donald, Pollock, De Villiers, Ntini, Kallis, Steyn, Morkel, Matthews, Hayward, Ambrose, Walsh, Marshall, Bishop, Patterson and the 2 Benjamins. Its quite a list. 30 bowlers from those 3 countries took 15+ wickets against Oz. Only 8 averaged under 30. Or just over a quarter.

I believe 16 bowlers in the inter war period took 15+ wickets against Aus. 7 of them averaged under 30. Just under half.

That is with Bradman's runs included. I believe the number could go to as many as 9 without him included, which is just over half and still would be a fair comparison. Yet there are some who will swear with their hand over heart that no one in the interwar era could bowl. (Well except O'Reilly and maybe Grimmett. Maybe). That there are a million billion infinity trinity better bowlers than there ever were then. Well the stats don't tell you that. But they give you a choice. Either acknowledge that just maybe the old timers could bowl a bit or agree that perhaps no one can. With the possible exception of Ambrose and Marshall and O'Reilly and Grimmett ...maybe.

 

[Gowza]

Andy Roberts average 25.61. A great? i'd place him as one, Might not be top tier but certainly a great. Walsh also was a great bowler, and one of my favourites to watch.

 

[kyear2]

Sure many would have seen already, but a great listen. Big ups to Sobers, Imran and Kallis.

Comments : Ian Chappell on ESPNcricinfo's World XI: Allrounder | 'He was a gambler with a hell of a lot of talent' | Cricket videos, MP3, podcasts, cricket audio | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[watson]

Sure many would have seen already, but a great listen. Big ups to Sobers, Imran and Kallis.

Comments : Ian Chappell on ESPNcricinfo's World XI: Allrounder | 'He was a gambler with a hell of a lot of talent' | Cricket videos, MP3, podcasts, cricket audio | ESPN Cricinfo

Yes, was a good listen on allrounders.

I also listened to Ian Chappell's comments regarding his personal choice of wicket-keeper for his ATG XI. He disregards Gilchrist and instead chooses Alan Knott because he was a "serious gloveman."

Comments : Ian Chappell on ESPNcricinfo's World XI: Wicketkeeper | 'When you're talking World XI, I'm talking serious glovemen' | Cricket videos, MP3, podcasts, cricket audio | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[smash84]

I loved his take on the fast bowlers though especially

Lillee could do everything that McGrath could and he could do it 10 miles quicker

 

[the big bambino]

I'll only comment on the content of the article and mentioned by posters above. Chappell is having a very serious lend of himself if he reckons Lillee is better than McGrath. If he's picking Knott over Gilly when Gilly's match winning batting easily offsets Knott's superior skills with the gloves, then he's having a lend of us all.

 

[Red]

I'll only comment on the content of the article and mentioned by posters above. Chappell is having a very serious lend of himself if he reckons Lillee is better than McGrath. If he's picking Knott over Gilly when Gilly's match winning batting easily offsets Knott's superior skills with the gloves, then he's having a lend of us all.

It's just his preference. I prefer Lillee to McGrath, but I'd be very very happy as a captain to have either. I'd probably select Gilchrist over Knott most times because he'll win you tests with his batting, but I'm happy with Knott as well.

Once again, I'll try to hammer home the point I adamantly believe. Gilchrist WAS NOT a crap keeper. He was very very good.

 

[harsh.ag]

I'll only comment on the content of the article and mentioned by posters above. Chappell is having a very serious lend of himself if he reckons Lillee is better than McGrath. If he's picking Knott over Gilly when Gilly's match winning batting easily offsets Knott's superior skills with the gloves, then he's having a lend of us all.

Seriously bambi, you need to quit such posts. Lillee is seen by many as the best of all time. Same goes for the fact that Knott has a batting average of 32 as well.

 

[the big bambino]

Seriously bambi, you need to quit such posts. Lillee is seen by many as the best of all time. Same goes for the fact that Knott has a batting average of 32 as well.

I can't be sure but I smell a bit of generational favouritism from Chappelli. I grew up idolising Lillee but he lost me when I read his book and his treatment of Hughes. Whatever opinion you have abt the circumstances of their dispute Lillee came off as an egotist with himself a priority over his country. And he was writing the account!

I know its hard to see the bigger picture when you have a personality clash but he didn't even seem to reflect on his behaviour. So to an extent my opinion of him will be tarnished by that incident. It makes it easier though when McGrath did everything Lillee did plus in the sub continent...and the West Indies. Thats an offset to Chappell's 10mph quicker comment.

As for Knotty; superb player. I grew up watching and hoping we'd have a keep like him. Imagine my pleasure when we lucked a Gilchrist instead.

 

[Adders]

I'll only comment on the content of the article and mentioned by posters above. Chappell is having a very serious lend of himself if he reckons Lillee is better than McGrath. If he's picking Knott over Gilly when Gilly's match winning batting easily offsets Knott's superior skills with the gloves, then he's having a lend of us all.

Not sure how you can say Chapell is having a lend of anyone, both situations are very debatable and there are perfectly valid arguments for both sides of Lillee V's McGrath and Knott V's Gilly.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

I loved his take on the fast bowlers though especially

Lillee could do everything that McGrath could and he could do it 10 miles quicker

I was under the impression Thommo said that but took a look again and found this

Glenn has all the tricks in the book to get wickets. Dennis had all the same tricks but with real bloody speed and the same kind of accuracy. Dennis was the complete package. He was frightening. If I had to choose between them, give me Dennis Lillee any day.- Jeff Thomson

 

[smash84]

I was under the impression Thommo said that but took a look again and found this

Check this link

Comments : Ian Chappell on ESPNcricinfo's World XI: Bowlers | 'A complete pace attack' | Cricket videos, MP3, podcasts, cricket audio | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[H4G]

Lillee could do everything that McGrath could and he could do it 10 miles quicker

Lillee was not good against left handers
Didn't have a good yorker
Could do well only on bowling friendly wickets of Australia,England etc only

 

[smash84]

I wasn't serious bhupinder

 

[Prince EWS]

If Lillee really could do everything McGrath could at 10km/hr faster then the only logical conclusion to draw would be that, contrary to popular belief, bowling slower is advantageous as a fast bowler.

Given that's clearly bull****, I think we can safely say Chappelli was just missing something.

 

[Plumbinfront]

Lillee was not good against left handers
Didn't have a good yorker

From what I saw of him he was more than decent against lefties, it is a ridiculous argument. This is sometimes used against Steyn as well and I find it utterly stupid. For the sake of the argument, even if he wasn't as good against the lefties how does it matter? Most of the players are right handers anyway. And Lillee didn't bowl a good yorker? Lol! Man got 300 odd test wickets without knowing how to bowl against lefties and a good yorkers....funny thing is, this guy has a record that is comparable to the legend, the champ, the greatest of all time - Imran Khan. Wonder why that is.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

From what I saw of him he was more than decent against lefties, it is a ridiculous argument. This is sometimes used against Steyn as well and I find it utterly stupid. For the sake of the argument, even if he wasn't as good against the lefties how does it matter? Most of the players are right handers anyway. And Lillee didn't bowl a good yorker? Lol! Man got 300 odd test wickets without knowing how to bowl against lefties and a good yorkers....funny thing is, this guy has a record that is comparable to the legend, the champ, the greatest of all time - Imran Khan. Wonder why that is.

Lillee was the better bowler than Imran. Amongst his peers inc Imran, he is considered the best. I would also rate him better than Steyn.

 

[H4G]

From what I saw of him he was more than decent against lefties, it is a ridiculous argument. This is sometimes used against Steyn as well and I find it utterly stupid. For the sake of the argument, even if he wasn't as good against the lefties how does it matter? Most of the players are right handers anyway. And Lillee didn't bowl a good yorker? Lol! Man got 300 odd test wickets without knowing how to bowl against lefties and a good yorkers....funny thing is, this guy has a record that is comparable to the legend, the champ, the greatest of all time - Imran Khan. Wonder why that is.

Because he was always a beast on bowling friendly wickets & no Imran obviously has better average depite having to play on Asian roads for most of his career.

 

[H4G]

And Lillee didn't bowl a good yorker? Lol! Man got 300 odd test wickets without knowing how to bowl against lefties and a good yorkers

Yeah just like Sehwag scoring truckloads of runs at 50+ average depite being a flat track bully & having no foot work at all

 

[smash84]

Bhupinder's multi?