Who has a better test bowling attack ?

[tooextracool]

What rubbish, he can turn it on anything if he wants to..

oh he could turn it but he couldnt turn it significantly enough to beat the bat or get the outside edge

 

[Tom Halsey]

mansoor amjad is the under 19 leggie, in the mould of shane warne.

im sure indian fans saw him in the semi final.

bowled a great wrong un to one of their batsmen.

currently in pakistan A team and is in the probables for the holland tri series.

Mansoor is not in the mould of Shane Warne - his action is nothing like his, he is quite flat, and he didn't spin it too much. That said, he did bowl a decent wrong 'un.

 

[Tom Halsey]

oh he could turn it but he couldnt turn it significantly enough to beat the bat or get the outside edge

Yes he could.

Well, he didn't get too many edges, he turned it too far for that. He turned it just as far as Murali does now, if not more - he still spins the occasional ball now too - but only when he wants to.

I reckon it was probably after his finger operation in 1996 when he started to vary how much he spun each ball.

 

[Tom Halsey]

nope wrist spinners dont turn it dangerously in non turning conditions....definetly not enough to beat the bat.

Not all of them they don't, but any one who turns it a bit will.

There are far more big spinning wrist spinners than there are big spinning finger spinners (there aren't any) and those big spinning wrist spinners will spin it in any conditions.

 

[nookie_lk]

Pakistan...the best bowling attack

 

[Muddaser]

fair enough, neither is mansoor amjad similar to abdul qadir or mushy.

from what i saw, mansoor was turning the ball more than kaneria. where did you actually see him bowl cause he was giving the ball alot of flight and was getting drift into the right handers.


dont forget tariq mahmood who bob woolmer has said is tweaking his action and will play very soon.

 

[Richard]

the only times he turned it a lot where on surfaces that offered turn.....and none of those other wrist spinners in that list used drift and loop as well as shane warne did.

Absolute bull****, Warne has countless times turned the ball on pitches any fingerspinner would struggle to do so. The Old Trafford wicket of The Gatting Ball wasn't an extravagant turner.
No, not many other spinners have used loop and drift the way Warne has, that's another reason for him being so good.
But the main reason is his accuracy.

 

[Richard]

oh he could turn it but he couldnt turn it significantly enough to beat the bat or get the outside edge

It really baffles belief that you can go so far as to say this, especially given how much cricket you claim to have watched.
There are so many examples to disprove this lunacy it's almost untrue.
Equally it applies to almost any other wristspinner, including the rubbish ones who spray it all over everywhere.
I've seen myself Mark Lawson turning the ball lots on the Headingley wickets which haven't offered anything to fingerspinners for about 34 years. And Mark Lawson is a model of waywardness ATM!

 

[Richard]

actually its pretty much what you consider kumble to be.....besides hes an anomaly(heres where it actually makes sense) because as i said there will probably never be anyone allowed to bowl with a remotely similar action.

Hardly anyone will be capable of bowling with the neccessary action - it requires a double-jointed wrist to bowl like Murali does and double-jointed wrists don't happen very often.
The chances of someone being blessed with a double-jointed wrist and Murali's ball-on-string control is almost zero. I can't see there ever being another like him, certainly not in my lifetime. If anyone can turn the ball like he does, they'll probably be a typical useless wayward wristspinner.

nope wrist spinners dont turn it dangerously in non turning conditions....definetly not enough to beat the bat.

As I say, this really does defy belief.
Do you really not understand how much more spin can be imparted by using the wrist than by using the fingers?
If not, I suggest you try it sometime.

well if these useless finger spinners have the knack of getting out quality in form batsman in unfavourable conditions then it must say something!

No, it just says that no matter how in-form and good a batsman is, they still play poor shots sometimes. If you recall that series properly (assuming you watched it ITFP) you'll see that.

rubbish the last 2 ODIs were on flat tracks which is why they all got caned out of the park. ntini is generally a very good ODI bowler but he isnt half as decent a test bowler on flat tracks. and from what i saw from klusener today it looks like hes gotten worse.

Flat pitch, seaming pitch, accuracy is accuracy and there's no good reason why it should suddenly have disappeared the way it did.
When did Ntini's Test ability come into it? Any fool can see that he's not that good on a non-seaming, even wicket there.
And what a fantastic idea, judging a bowler on 11 overs.

 

[tooextracool]

Absolute ********, Warne has countless times turned the ball on pitches any fingerspinner would struggle to do so. The Old Trafford wicket of The Gatting Ball wasn't an extravagant turner..

of course,which is why peter such ended up taking 6-67 in the first innings of that match.......

 

[tooextracool]

It really baffles belief that you can go so far as to say this, especially given how much cricket you claim to have watched.
There are so many examples to disprove this lunacy it's almost untrue.
Equally it applies to almost any other wristspinner, including the rubbish ones who spray it all over everywhere.

and there are so many examples to disprove your theory that finger spinners cant take wickets outside of turning wickets.....

 

[tooextracool]

Hardly anyone will be capable of bowling with the neccessary action - it requires a double-jointed wrist to bowl like Murali does and double-jointed wrists don't happen very often.
The chances of someone being blessed with a double-jointed wrist and Murali's ball-on-string control is almost zero. I can't see there ever being another like him, certainly not in my lifetime.

yes so hes an anomaly, and he cant be classified as a wrist spinner.

As I say, this really does defy belief.
Do you really not understand how much more spin can be imparted by using the wrist than by using the fingers?
If not, I suggest you try it sometime.

certainly not enough to turn the ball significantly on non turners.....

No, it just says that no matter how in-form and good a batsman is, they still play poor shots sometimes. If you recall that series properly (assuming you watched it ITFP) you'll see that.

no its just stupid to condemn good spinner performances due to poor shots, quite frankly if you looked at any spinner's performances in unfavourable conditions you would see clearly that several of their wickets come off non-wicket taking balls. the fact is that in the build up to these balls there were genuinely good deliveries.....

When did Ntini's Test ability come into it? Any fool can see that he's not that good on a non-seaming, even wicket there.

becuase we were looking at klusener's ability at the test match level...and from what ive seen so far, hes gotten worse.

And what a fantastic idea, judging a bowler on 11 overs.

judge him in whatever way you want.....i doubt that he'll ever be a wicket taker.

 

[Piper]

South Africa or Pakistan ?

South Africa, but Pakistan arent push overs either

 

[steds]

South Africa, but Pakistan arent push overs either

I agree. I would say Pakistan, but Shoaib and Sami are too wayward

 

[ReallyCrazy]

South Africa, but Pakistan arent push overs either

yeah. Pakistan's bowling is good on paper but I really feel sami and akhtar are overrated. Sami is very inconsistent and has more bad days than good days.

 

[Tom Halsey]

yes so hes an anomaly, and he cant be classified as a wrist spinner.

Of course he can!

What is he then?!

 

[Tom Halsey]

certainly not enough to turn the ball significantly on non turners.....

Just look at MacGill, or Warne in his early days.

 

[Anil]

s.a has the better attack, ntini is becoming a force in world cricket, pollock is as superb as ever and the support cast is pretty decent. variety is a little overhyped, i feel(i used to feel otherwise)....looks good on paper, but if the performance on the field doesn't match the reputation, they are of little use. for me, akthar is the only world class performer for pakistan and he too is inconsistent. the other pacers including sami are wildly inconsistent and more often than not just make up the numbers....they have some good spinners in saqlain and kaneria...but as i said, variety has to be effective to be good....4 very effective bowlers all bowling the same way is much better than an attack which has all kinds of bowlers but doesn't penetrate...

 

[tooextracool]

Of course he can!

What is he then?!

how can you classify someone whos action isnt even remotely similar to any other in the same category let alone the fact that he turns it the opposite way or the fact that his action will always be under scrutiny.

 

[Tom Halsey]

The fact that he turns it the other way doesn't alter the fact that he spins it from the wrist - what is he then?