Which Team Has The Most Allrounder's????

[tooextracool]

He certainly didn't do too badly with the bat though. He's a very talented batsman too, but is still quite young and will undoubtedly learn with time. Look at Sarwan, he averaged around 32 (from memory) when he entered Test cricket. Now he averages over 40 in Tests, ODIs and FC cricket.

of course his test average does go down to 36 when you discount performances against bangladesh and zimbabwe.

 

[Richard]

Sarwan has still yet to totally convince me - as far as Tests are concerned.
Very fine ODI player indeed.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Sarwan has still yet to totally convince me - as far as Tests are concerned.

Few have. Fewer will ever.

 

[Richard]

There are plenty who have.
Not as many as for some, though.
Are you seriously saying a Test-average of 36 is that convincing, especially in this day-and-age of conditions.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

of course his test average does go down to 36 when you discount performances against bangladesh and zimbabwe.

In his last 30 Tests he averages 42.21 against all opposition and 36.76 against non-Zimbabwe/Bangladesh opposition.

In his last 20, 39.93 against all non Zim/Ban opposition. 46.31 against everyone. Centuries against Australia (1), England (1) and South Africa (2). 3 of those 4 have been overseas. He averages 42.78 in the stretch when he gets off the mark.

He's certainly far better than a low 30s FC average would suggest.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

There are plenty who have.
Not as many as for some, though.
Are you seriously saying a Test-average of 36 is that convincing, especially in this day-and-age of conditions.

There's a bit more than the general statistic. For one, his average has risen steadily over his career and tends to hover around 38-40 for a series, which is quite solid. Keep in mind that he's still just 24 years old and has scored runs in some big situations.

Steven Rodger Waugh after 50 Tests...

2387 runs in 77 innings with 11 NOs. That's a 36.11 average. He worked out to be okay...

 

[tooextracool]

In his last 30 Tests he averages 42.21 against all opposition and 36.76 against non-Zimbabwe/Bangladesh opposition.

In his last 20, 39.93 against all non Zim/Ban opposition. 46.31 against everyone. Centuries against Australia (1), England (1) and South Africa (2). 3 of those 4 have been overseas. He averages 42.78 in the stretch when he gets off the mark.

He's certainly far better than a low 30s FC average would suggest.

doesnt sound like hes made remarkable strides if you ask me. hes gone from averaging 32 to 36, decent but not something to shout about, certainly hasnt shown anywhere near the improvement you seemed to be suggesting in that post about bravo. if bravo shows the same amount of improvement that sarwan has(which really is minimal in tests), id be extremely disappointed.

 

[bryce]

The fact that batting in his day was quite a bit more difficult than it is now (due to uncovered wickets), plus the fact that I've watched him bat quite a bit on film and he looked very much to me like a fine batsman indeed. I've also read stuff about him and there were descriptions of him as someone who'd come not far from making a domestic side for batting alone.

ok that's the obvious part done, now why do you think his bowling average would stay the same? logic says if his batting average would be higher so would his bowling average.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

doesnt sound like hes made remarkable strides if you ask me. hes gone from averaging 32 to 36, decent but not something to shout about, certainly hasnt shown anywhere near the improvement you seemed to be suggesting in that post about bravo. if bravo shows the same amount of improvement that sarwan has(which really is minimal in tests), id be extremely disappointed.

Er... the improvement is not seen in the overall average, but rather in the average over a space of time. It's undeniable (by most) that a batsman who manages a low 30s average against domestic bowling in the West Indies and manages to score hundreds against quality opposition, whilst scoring at a tick below 40 per innings has made big improvements.

 

[tooextracool]

Er... the improvement is not seen in the overall average, but rather in the average over a space of time. It's undeniable (by most) that a batsman who manages a low 30s average against domestic bowling in the West Indies and manages to score hundreds against quality opposition, whilst scoring at a tick below 40 per innings has made big improvements.

but his average since the series in SL has been around 37-38. its only after the series against b'desh when he got the average to get to 40, otherwise its been stagnant for at least 2 years now.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

but his average since the series in SL has been around 37-38. its only after the series against b'desh when he got the average to get to 40, otherwise its been stagnant for at least 2 years now.

Ok, let me rephrase this. I was referring to his average in the period, not his overall average! His overall average in his last 20 Tests (not including Zim/Ban) is a tick under 40.

 

[tooextracool]

Ok, let me rephrase this. I was referring to his average in the period, not his overall average! His overall average in his last 20 Tests (not including Zim/Ban) is a tick under 40.

but if his overall average has remained stagnant in 2 years(not counting b'desh), it suggests that he hasnt improved much in the last 2 years doesnt it?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

but if his overall average has remained stagnant in 2 years(not counting b'desh), it suggests that he hasnt improved much in the last 2 years doesnt it?

Let's think for a minute. If his average in a certain period has improved to about 40 from sub-30, that's typically considered an improvement... because it has improved! Sarwan's average has consistently been in the high 30s for the majority of his career, which suggests consistency as he would get 50s but not carry on. Now he's scoring hundreds against some of the finest bowlers in the world and you're suggesting he hasn't improved from knocking an average of 32 against domestic bowlers? Get real.

 

[Richard]

ok that's the obvious part done, now why do you think his bowling average would stay the same? logic says if his batting average would be higher so would his bowling average.

Not for a wristspinner.
Wristspinners don't need turning pitches to take turn the ball dangerously, they'll turn it on anything.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

they'll turn it on anything.

That's incorrect. I've seen some good wrist spinners struggle on various types of tile and concrete surfaces.

 

[Richard]

And equally I've seen Mushtaq Ahmed turn it on glass, tiles and loads of other stuff I can't remember - in a special feature designed around just this sort of thing.

 

[bryce]

Not for a wristspinner.
Wristspinners don't need turning pitches to take turn the ball dangerously, they'll turn it on anything.

that's trash

 

[tooextracool]

Let's think for a minute. If his average in a certain period has improved to about 40 from sub-30, that's typically considered an improvement... because it has improved! Sarwan's average has consistently been in the high 30s for the majority of his career, which suggests consistency as he would get 50s but not carry on. Now he's scoring hundreds against some of the finest bowlers in the world and you're suggesting he hasn't improved from knocking an average of 32 against domestic bowlers? Get real.

his average from what you have indicated has improved from his domestic average. which isnt my point. im saying that in the last 2 years his test average has remained stagnant(or would have had it not been for b'desh). this does not show improvement with age.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

his average from what you have indicated has improved from his domestic average. which isnt my point. im saying that in the last 2 years his test average has remained stagnant(or would have had it not been for b'desh). this does not show improvement with age.

Ok I'm not about to repeat the stats that I've shown in my last few posts which do indicate and improvement over time, so let's just agree to disagree, at least until you actually respond to the statistics I've brought to the table.

 

[tooextracool]

Ok I'm not about to repeat the stats that I've shown in my last few posts which do indicate and improvement over time, so let's just agree to disagree, at least until you actually respond to the statistics I've brought to the table.

the stats that you have shown look at his last 20 games only. if you look at his average over a 2 year period, you will see that his average has remained the same. in fact his average after the tour of india was a touch under 40. it then fell to 36 and its now upto 40 thanks to the series against bangladesh. whether or not hes performed better than in domestic cricket is irrelevant because he hasnt shown too much improvement in tests in a 2 year period, and in fact for most of his career.