Which IPL franchise will you be supporting?

[NUFAN]

btw, White is taken as an all-rounder in B'lore's squad

and i know that just because Kallis bats slowly in tests, it does not mean he can't turn it own .... haven't i answered that line of thinking before .... once again i ll do that if you want me to be repetitive like you

Langer [his potential not doubted, so don't go on and on abt his potential] is a very good player but he doesn't open for OZ in ODIs [in fact, Gambhir reminds me of Langer]. Is it because he is not good enough to open in ODIs? No, it's not cause of that but because OZ have a better option in Gilly, who can be more effective .... ofc, if Langer opens in ODIs, he would be successful in it too. He can turn it on too. so whether Langer can turn it on, is not a point

Now, if B'lore did want Kallis then fair enough but it should hv then got someone else in place of say Cpaul and one from Bracken or Styen to have a more effective combination .... Again, whether Kallis can turn it on is not a point, it's just that the combination is flawed with too many similar type of players in the B'lore squad

cheers

Ret they still need an extra six players to fill their squad. I'm pretty confident that the Bangalore management can pick some local guys to fill some of the areas where they are lacking.

 

[ret]

Ret they still need an extra six players to fill their squad. I'm pretty confident that the Bangalore management can pick some local guys to fill some of the areas where they are lacking.

sure, it can but potentially, it would hv missed out on some high quality overseas players option

having said that, i m not happy with the combinations of many teams, it just that B'lore is getting discussed here a lot for some reason

And i m yet to decide on whom to support

cheers

 

[NUFAN]

sure, it can but potentially, it would hv missed out on some high quality overseas players option

having said that, i m not happy with the combinations of many teams, it just that B'lore is getting discussed here a lot for some reason

And i m yet to decide on whom to support

cheers

Why not support Bangalore?

 

[pasag]

btw, White is taken as an all-rounder in B'lore's squad

and i know that just because Kallis bats slowly in tests, it does not mean he can't turn it own .... haven't i answered that line of thinking before .... once again i ll do that if you want me to be repetitive like you

Langer [his potential not doubted, so don't go on and on abt his potential] is a very good player but he doesn't open for OZ in ODIs [in fact, Gambhir reminds me of Langer]. Is it because he is not good enough to open in ODIs? No, it's not cause of that but because OZ have a better option in Gilly, who can be more effective .... ofc, if Langer opens in ODIs, he would be successful in it too. He can turn it on too. so whether Langer can turn it on, is not a point

Now, if B'lore did want Kallis then fair enough but it should hv then got someone else in place of say Cpaul and one from Bracken or Styen to have a more effective combination .... Again, whether Kallis can turn it on is not a point, it's just that the combination is flawed with too many similar type of players in the B'lore squad

cheers

I don't think you have answered satisfactorily though. As limited over batsman Gilchrist is better than Langer. I'm not doubting that. But if Langer could bowl well the equation would change (Gilchrist keeping obviously also is a major factor but let's not dwell to much on the analogy). So too, Ponting et al might be a bit better than Kallis when it comes to limited overs batting, but when you factor in bowling, the equation radically changes. BTW, if Bangalore picked White as an all-rounder they could be in for a surprise if recent reports on his bowling are anything to go by.

And wrt Chanderpaul, if I'm not mistaken he was picked up towards the end so it's not like they had a all these glamorous options and went for him. If he was picked up for a stack of money in the early rounds then you might have a point.

 

[pasag]

nice stats but who said that he won't do well in IPL?

cheers

Who said I said someone said he wouldn't do well in the IPL? It's some figures I found interesting and provided based on a comment I made on Langer being a dark horse in the tournament.

 

[ret]

I don't think you have answered satisfactorily though. As limited over batsman Gilchrist is better than Langer. I'm not doubting that. But if Langer could bowl well the equation would change (Gilchrist keeping obviously also is a major factor but let's not dwell to much on the analogy). So too, Ponting et al might be a bit better than Kallis when it comes to limited overs batting, but when you factor in bowling, the equation radically changes. BTW, if Bangalore picked White as an all-rounder they could be in for a surprise if recent reports on his bowling are anything to go by.

And wrt Chanderpaul, if I'm not mistaken he was picked up towards the end so it's not like they had a all these glamorous options and went for him. If he was picked up for a stack of money in the early rounds then you might have a point.

the thing is that you can still play Gilly purely as a batsman, and Gilly is being used as a metaphor here, you can substitute Gilly with Langer's opening partner in tests, Hayden and the point that i made would still hold true, i.e. better option, along with gr8er impact

and i wouldn't pick Kallis while factoring his bowling. NOW, i don't rate his bowling that highly [plz dont go on saying how effective a bowler he is coz, imo, now he is not at his best as far as bowling is concerned]. i would pick him mainly as a batsman who can be used as a 5th bowling option. so the point that his bowling turns the pendulum in his favor vis-a-vis Ponting doesn't cut in for me .... from my PoV, Ponting potentially can play the full 20 overs at an amazing strike rate that can bat the opposition out of the game. Add to that Ponting's fielding and his ability to get some run-outs

in fact, i would not have either Kallis or Dravid in my team, same goes for Jaffar and C'paul

see, it's two different lines of thinking here .... and i don't try to justify what a team does and convince myself thats probably the way to go .... i try to see how a team does according to my vision

cheers

 

[pasag]

Yes, i guess it's too late for you

You are judging Symo from one tournament, so why don't u judge Kallis from his 20T record so far, eh?

Comparing Apples to Oranges, eh? For Kallis, it's potential but for Symo, it's that championship

cheers

Not really, please don't try and twist things around. It would be silly to judge any player on the first few games of the format when it was treated as little more than a joke. However the indications from the T20 WC, where we learnt quite a bit about the format, was that part time bowling options, like that of Symonds would get hammered.

 

[ret]

Not really, please don't try and twist things around. It would be silly to judge any player on the first few games of the format when it was treated as little more than a joke. However the indications from the T20 WC, where we learnt quite a bit about the format, was that part time bowling options, like that of Symonds would get hammered.

twist things? thats how ur line of reasoning appears to me

read my post abt on kallis as a bowling option .... and u r off the mark as regards to part-timers like Symo as if that WC tourney were played in SL, the results could hv been different

so i guess my Q mark ur logical deductions holds true [apples to oranges]

cheers

 

[pasag]

the thing is that you can still play Gilly purely as a batsman, and Gilly is being used as a metaphor here, you can substitute Gilly with Langer's opening partner in tests, Hayden and the point that i made would still hold true, i.e. better option, along with gr8er impact

and i wouldn't pick Kallis while factoring his bowling. NOW, i don't rate his bowling that highly [plz dont go on saying how effective a bowler he is coz, imo, now he is not at his best as far as bowling is concerned]. i would pick him mainly as a batsman who can be used as a 5th bowling option. so the point that his bowling turns the pendulum in his favor vis-a-vis Ponting doesn't cut in for me .... from my PoV, Ponting potentially can play the full 20 overs at an amazing strike rate that can bat the opposition out of the game. Add to that Ponting's fielding and his ability to get some run-outs

in fact, i would not have either Kallis or Dravid in my team, same goes for Jaffar and C'paul

see, it's two different lines of thinking here .... and i don't try to justify what a team does and convince myself thats probably the way to go .... i try to see how a team does according to my vision

cheers

Not sure what you're getting at in the first paragraph, my point was that look at their overall values as cricketers and the equation changes. I'm not sure how substituting anyone changes or refutes that.

And if you want to bring in Ponting's fielding that's fine but it's also changing the goal posts on the original discussion of strokemakers. Now you are also looking at their overall value as cricketers, so I guess we're getting somewhere. It's a valid point to bring to the table.

And if you don't rate Kallis' bowling, that's fine. Plenty of people underrate it and you wouldn't be the first to do so. Bangalore and all the teams involved in the partial bidding war rated it very highly though, they recognised his value as an all-round cricketer and subsequently wanted them in his squad. You don't pass up the chance to get someone of Kallis's ilk just because Dravid is already in the team.

 

[pasag]

twist things? thats how ur line of reasoning appears to me

read my post abt on kallis as a bowling option .... and u r off the mark as regards to part-timers like Symo as if that WC tourney were played in SL, the results could hv been different

so i guess my Q mark ur logical deductions holds true [apples to oranges]

cheers

Nope, you've twisted a general observation of part-timers in format from the championship onto Kallis' initial three match record when the format was very much hit and giggles. There's no relevance at all here.

 

[ret]

Not sure what you're getting at in the first paragraph, my point was that look at their overall values as cricketers and the equation changes. I'm not sure how substituting anyone changes or refutes that.

And if you want to bring in Ponting's fielding that's fine but it's also changing the goal posts on the original discussion of strokemakers. Now you are also looking at their overall value as cricketers, so I guess we're getting somewhere. It's a valid point to bring to the table.

And if you don't rate Kallis' bowling, that's fine. Plenty of people underrate it and you wouldn't be the first to do so. Bangalore and all the teams involved in the partial bidding war rated it very highly though, they recognised his value as an all-round cricketer and subsequently wanted them in his squad. You don't pass up the chance to get someone of Kallis's ilk just because Dravid is already in the team.

Hayden vs Langer opening in ODIs, the eq for selection remains the same, i.e. hayden is a better option even though both of them don't bring any all-round skills to the table

Nah, I have mainly taken Pontings' batting into account esp if I m looking for a key batsman for my team who could potentially bat out the opposition .... but, yes his fielding is an added benefit

yeah, but i agree to disagree with B'lore selection process. i would hv spent that million in a better way

cheers

 

[ret]

Nope, you've twisted a general observation of part-timers in format from the championship onto Kallis' initial three match record when the format was very much hit and giggles. There's no relevance at all here.

in my book, now u r underestimating the initial phase of 20T and that too to undermine Kallis bad record in those 3 games

on the initial phase of 20T being hit and giggles .... well, did you know that Ind won that 20T WC without having any domestic culture of 20T [so for many teams, it was still a hit and giggles], while if I m not wrong then RSA does have some kind of structure in place

case closed, buddy ... check and mate

cheers

 

[pasag]

in my book, now u r underestimating the initial phase of 20T and that too to undermine Kallis bad record in those 3 games

on the initial phase of 20T being hit and giggles .... well, did you know that Ind won that 20T WC without having any domestic culture of 20T [so for many teams, it was still a hit and giggles], while if I m not wrong then RSA does have some kind of structure in place

case closed, buddy ... check and mate

cheers

India did very well to act on their feet and figure things out quickly whilst being thrown in the deep end but there's no comparison to the early stages of the game when it was just a tour opener novelty and how to play it was still trying to be figured out in very unchartered waters.

 

[pasag]

Hayden vs Langer opening in ODIs, the eq for selection remains the same, i.e. hayden is a better option even though both of them don't bring any all-round skills to the table

Yeah no one would dispute that, but my point is, if Langer of whoever did have all-round skills it might push him above Hayden. Same with Flintoff, not the very best bowler in the world, far from the best batsman, but if he was fit he would get, marketing aside, the highest possible price and be sought after by all teams for his multiple skills even though you could find many better batsman and some better bowlers.

yeah, but i agree to disagree with B'lore selection process. i would hv spent that million in a better way

cheers

Ok, but to finish off with a quote, from a bias source perhaps, but a good one nonetheless:

"No, I wouldn't pay $900,000 for him - I'd pay $1 million for him."
Jonty Rhodes indicates how much he would have bid for Jacques Kallis.

 

[ret]

India did very well to act on their feet and figure things out quickly whilst being thrown in the deep end but there's no comparison to the early stages of the game when it was just a tour opener novelty and how to play it was still trying to be figured out in very unchartered waters.

but if i m not wrong then most teams touring RSA would get 20T games, and as i said it probably has a domestic cricket structure in place so its not unchartered as far as RSA is concerned .... another example of Ind considering that WC a hit and giggle is that the big 3 skipped it

and if i m not wrong, Kallis was desperate to play in that WC but was not selected

i don't thing you know what u r talking abt and it now doesn't surprise me how high you value Kallis' selection in the B'lore team

cheers

 

[pasag]

but if i m not wrong then most teams touring RSA would get 20T games, and as i said it probably has a domestic cricket structure in place so its not unchartered as far as RSA is concerned .... another example of Ind considering that WC a hit and giggle is that the big 3 skipped it

and if i m not wrong, Kallis was desperate to play in that WC but was not selected

i don't thing you know what u r talking abt and it now doesn't surprise me how high you value Kallis' selection in the B'lore team

cheers

Look, I've had enough of "i don't thing you know what u r talking abt" rubbish that I've ignored till now, either learn to debate properly or don't at all.

We've been through the Kallis selection issue already. See one of my first posts in this topic.

And If you've watched T20 cricket from its early stages you'd see the leaps and bounds in its general understanding during the WC, for the game on a whole, not a team by team basis. India might have been new to it but they had just as much access to the various revelations made as all others had at that point (plus some excellent thinking on their feet). But that's beside the point, conveniently missed, that a few matches first up by Kallis shows very little whereas the WC, a 30 match event was enough to indicate to us that part timers would be in for a rough ride in Twenty20s. Symonds showing at the WC was an example of this. This isn't from stats, I remember clearly how bad it was. Your attempt to discredit Kallis somehow here is reaching at best.

 

[ret]

Ok, but to finish off with a quote, from a bias source perhaps, but a good one nonetheless:

"No, I wouldn't pay $900,000 for him - I'd pay $1 million for him."
Jonty Rhodes indicates how much he would have bid for Jacques Kallis.

coudn't resist commenting on Rhodes' comment .... well i m sure Kallis is worth a million to him coz of the values Kallis brings to RSA. with the kind of players [Gibbs, Smith, Kemp, deVilliars, etc] RSA has, it definitely need Kallis to lend that balance

and thats one of my points, i.e. having the right balance .... hope u got the point

cheers

 

[grecian]

Is this the official IPL thread now?

Anywhoo, I'll keep it on topic by mentioning I'll probably have to work out what team to support soon, as it's going to be covered on Setanta Sports in deer ol' Blighty.

Don't think that news has been posted elsewhere, and I know people have asked about it in various threads

 

[ret]

Look, I've had enough of "i don't thing you know what u r talking abt" rubbish that I've ignored till now, either learn to debate properly or don't at all.

We've been through the Kallis selection issue already. See one of my first posts in this topic.

And If you've watched T20 cricket from its early stages you'd see the leaps and bounds in its general understanding during the WC, for the game on a whole, not a team by team basis. India might have been new to it but they had just as much access to the various revelations made as all others had at that point (plus some excellent thinking on their feet). But that's beside the point, conveniently missed, that a few matches first up by Kallis shows very little whereas the WC, a 30 match event was enough to indicate to us that part timers would be in for a rough ride in Twenty20s. Symonds showing at the WC was an example of this. This isn't from stats, I remember clearly how bad it was. Your attempt to discredit Kallis somehow here is reaching at best.

dude, don't teach me what debate is .... u r not in that league yet, buddy

but the argument that u presented goes against u, coz

1. u r implying that Kallis failed coz 20T was a hit and giggles affair early on, which again brings the Q that how did u know Kallis didn't take those matches seriously, esp since he was so desperate to play in the 20T WC .... if you imply that someone representing his team/country could take it as a hit and giggle then it seriously undermines his value coz he might just take IPL as hit and giggle too

Verdict ----> not a valid point

2. You are judging bowling of guys like Symo from that WC in RSA but what if that WC was played on a dust bowl in SL. the results would probably be different

Verdict ----> Not a valid point

don't know who really is discrediting Kallis

cheers

 

[pasag]

coudn't resist commenting on Rhodes' comment .... well i m sure Kallis is worth a million to him coz of the values Kallis brings to RSA. with the kind of players [Gibbs, Smith, Kemp, deVilliars, etc] RSA has, it definitely need Kallis to lend that balance

and thats one of my points, i.e. having the right balance .... hope u got the point

cheers

Nothing assists team balance like a gun all-rounder.