Where Should Sachin Tendulkar Bat In ODI's?

[Gotchya]

The point is, as captain, Ganguly will play. Now, he isn't the best at rotating the strike and keeping the scoreboard ticking while he gets his eye in. If he comes too far down the order, he might waste overs getting set, so I felt if he isn't opening, he should be sent atleast on-drop so that he has the time to undo any initial damage(scoring rate-wise) that he might do. This way, if the openers come good, he won't be under pressure when he gets in and can bat more freely and if one or both openers fail, he will come in while field restrictions are in place and can take advantage of that. This is all theory and conjecture. Performance out there on the field is a diiferent story altogether. I just thought this made a little sense.

I agree, Ganguly will make a terrible middle order batsman. THe only other suitable place for him is the one down position. But again, the one down position is normally your best batsman. Ganguly is not a player adept at improvisation. He nomally depends on field restrictions to do the trick. So what about a Ganguly and Sachin pairing ? (Its improbable to happen) still they are the two top one day pairs around.

 

[Rik]

I agree, Ganguly will make a terrible middle order batsman. THe only other suitable place for him is the one down position. But again, the one down position is normally your best batsman. Ganguly is not a player adept at improvisation. He nomally depends on field restrictions to do the trick. So what about a Ganguly and Sachin pairing ? (Its improbable to happen) still they are the two top one day pairs around.

Well if he continues in this form then I'd take him out of the team. I might have Sachin at the one down position but why is the Indian team trying to get him to bat at 4 when he's been asked to set the pace of the innings for so long...But the big problem I have is that they keep putting someone like Mongia or Laxman up at 3 and ask Sachin to bat at 4. Now Mongia and Laxman have not been successful, and I understand the arguement that if the 3 top batsmen bat in the top 3 positions and they all get out cheaply then there's no one to rescue them, but you are forgetting that there are 2 decent batsmen in Kaif and Yuvraj with Dravid coming in ahead of them at 5. Why not just pick the strongest side with the top 3 batting in the top 3, someone Dravid at 4, Yuvraj and Kaif at 5 and 6, the young keeper at 7 and AA at 8? Mongia and Laxman seem to be a hinderence to Sachin rather than a help, and Dravid could do without keeping too.

 

[Bazza]

Considering that Sachin and Ganguly have opened together for so long and both have far superior averages to Sehwag...I would disagree.

But Sehwag has been better than Ganguly over the past 12 months or so, averaging 41. The only reason his overall average is poor is because he took a bit of time to get going, as many players do.

 

[Rik]

But Sehwag has been better than Ganguly over the past 12 months or so, averaging 41. The only reason his overall average is poor is because he took a bit of time to get going, as many players do.

Yeah but then there's another problem...either you keep Ganguly in the team on past record or let someone who has shown talent like Badani in...

 

[aussie_beater]

I would love to see Tendulkar back into the opening slot. But there is one problem....in all the years that Tendulkar was opening, India did not have a good enough ODI record overseas in seaming conditions.If Tendulkar fired, then it was not that bad but if he failed the problem was beyond repair as the whole batting lineup never showed any spunk after that.

With the emergence of Sehwag, India has found an explosive right hander who can take charge at the top of the order.That makes room for Tendulkar to move a little lower in the order.Question is how low ? Now the issue of Ganguly remains.He is not much good at pacing the innings in the middle overs because he loves to make most of his runs through boundaries.This is easier in the initial overs and much tougher with the field restrictions gone.So he should open alongwith Sehwag and have a go.He has failed in the NZ tour and didn't do that well in the Natwest series as well.Let's give him some more time as he has done amazing things at the top of the order in the past.

And Tendulkar should come at three.That way if the openers fail, that is the best bet to make good use of the initial overs and grab the initiative or else everything is gone anyway.If the openers do not fail, then also it makes sense for him to come at three as he can consolidate the innings further.

 

[Bazza]

I agree, that seems a very sensible suggestion.

 

[Wazztodd]

Yep, best bat at 3 for me. Worked for Braddles, worked for Chappell G, It doesn't matter what form of the game you're playing, stick your best bat at 3. I'd have Sachin open if there weren't other options there, but while Ganguly is picked, he should open (pple have short memories, he has single-handedly won many games) with Sehwag, but Sachin needs to bat higher than four, giving him the opportunity to build an innings.

 

[Bazza]

best bat at 3?

Further evidence England are in the process of making a major ****-up.

 

[Wazztodd]

Well, on that thread, that would be why I'd stick Vaughan there. Hugely important slot in the lineup IMO, Gotta work hard in times of trouble, play shots after a big opening partership.

With further thought though, I'd have Sachin open in ODI's. Gotta give him the maximum time out there, and if he goes early, India just have to buckle down and find runs from others.

 

[marc71178]

best bat at 3?

Further evidence England are in the process of making a major ****-up.

But Vaughan's been a great opener, so he's not going to bat at 3.

 

[Langeveldt]

best bat at 3?

Further evidence England are in the process of making a major ****-up.

Lol! who have England had at three in recent times. Irani, Blackwell. Remember when Allan Mullally was sent in to pinch hit against Zimbabwe???

Seriously though, I would agree in that three is the most vital position. Someone who needs to come in against a new ball if the first wicket goes down early, or be able to start against the spinners if the first wicket puts up a partnesrship. I would have

1.Sehwag
2.Ganguly
3.Tendulkar
4.Dravid (wk)

 

[Rik]

Lol! who have England had at three in recent times. Irani, Blackwell. Remember when Allan Mullally was sent in to pinch hit against Zimbabwe???

I think your talking about Bryan Strang of Zimbabwe when he was brought in to pitch hit and was beaten every ball by Mullally then dragged one on off the last ball of the over.

 

[Top_Cat]

I would love to see Tendulkar back into the opening slot. But there is one problem....in all the years that Tendulkar was opening, India did not have a good enough ODI record overseas in seaming conditions.If Tendulkar fired, then it was not that bad but if he failed the problem was beyond repair as the whole batting lineup never showed any spunk after that.

Well you've sort-of made an indirect but very valid point; if the entire team's success is dependent upon Sachin not only NOT failing, there is a wider problem than where Sachin bats. Realistically speaking if this is the main reason behind determining where he should bat, then it won't really matter where you put him; they'll still oose more often than not.

NO team in history has shown that it can be winning team when its success is based upon one player. Maybe the Indian team should be looking not at where Sachin bats but at how they can succeed themselves WITHOUT relying on him all the time.

The stupid thing is, the players CAN all play very well but I get the feeling that none of them wants to try to dominate the opposition themselves. If that's the case, then the players shouldn't be there at all. Sehwag seems to be the only other player willing to take a leadership role in scoring runs and help to take the pressure off Sachin.

 

[aussie_beater]

Well you've sort-of made an indirect but very valid point; if the entire team's success is dependent upon Sachin not only NOT failing, there is a wider problem than where Sachin bats. Realistically speaking if this is the main reason behind determining where he should bat, then it won't really matter where you put him; they'll still oose more often than not.

Yes I agree with you completely on that count.

IMO the only way for the Indian team to achieve that is by winning matches even without significant contribution from Sachin.And that's what happened in the Natwest and also in the ICC Champions trophy. In the WI series also it was ok in the matches that India won as Sachin wasn't there but they faltered at the end to lose the series.These type of successes can create the confidence in the team to take on the opposition and make everybody take responsibilty and leadership from whatever position they bat.And there is no other thing like success in changing the mentality of a player completely.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Well you've sort-of made an indirect but very valid point; if the entire team's success is dependent upon Sachin not only NOT failing, there is a wider problem than where Sachin bats. Realistically speaking if this is the main reason behind determining where he should bat, then it won't really matter where you put him; they'll still oose more often than not.


The stupid thing is, the players CAN all play very well but I get the feeling that none of them wants to try to dominate the opposition themselves. If that's the case, then the players shouldn't be there at all. Sehwag seems to be the only other player willing to take a leadership role in scoring runs and help to take the pressure off Sachin.

The West Indies had a similar problem very recently and it took Lara's absence for them to sort out these issues. I'm not suggesting that Tendulkar be dropped but what I'm saying is that as long as Tendulkar is in the team then there will always be a dependancy on him until a greater batsman emerges. The most effective way for India to lose this dependancy is to experience difficulties without him and force other players to step up.

The WI were forced to do this and ultimately reaped rich rewards.

 

[Top_Cat]

The WI were forced to do this and ultimately reaped rich rewards.

They've still got some margin to go before they'll be a world-beating side again, though. And what happens when Lara re-enters the side? In short, I think this current resurgence is to be short lived unless the following is done:

1) Drop Carl Hooper. It's obvious that he has an extraordinary ability with the bat but an average of 36 after 102 Tests is poor. He should have figured out what this Test thing is about years ago and keeping him in the side is holding another back from reaching the side.

2) Drop Wavell Hinds. He's a good hitter of the ball but he just simply doesn't have the technique or the discipline to match it against the world's best bowlers.

3) Bring back Brian Lara. You don't keep a proven champion like that in the wings any longer than he has to in order to get over his illness. It's pretty obvious he's not the dominant force he was so maybe the team will ty to avoid leaning on him again.

4) Lose the obsession with the four fast bowlers. Clive Lloyd said years ago that when picking the WI team, they just picked the four best bowlers in the Carribean who happened to be very fast. The current crop of spinners (Hinds, Nagamootoo etc.) seem to be picked only on the basis that the WI team is waiting for another fast bowler to pick ahead of them. DEVELOP spinners who show promise. Don't pick them to fill a place while waiting for a fast bowler to pick, only to drop them at the first opportunity. It's not as if the WI have never had great (not just good but GREAT) spinners before (Ramadhin, Valentine, Gibbs).

5) Make Chris Gayle captain. He's the player on the way up and looks like he'll be in the side for a while yet. Obviously Hooper has experience over him but he looks like a solid player and to me, captaincy material.

 

[masterblaster]

I agree with you Corey about the West Indies future. Chanderpaul would be a top candidate for Captain, only if he wasnt so injury prone.

Anyway......back on to topic.

This is Sachins Record Position Wise:

Opener (1+2): 193 Matches, 8743 Runs, Average of 48.84
Number 3: 6 Matches, 57 Runs, Average of 11.40
Number 4: 55 Matches, 1838 Runs, Average of 38.29

this goes to show that Sachin Prefers opening. So no doubt for me is to have Sehwag and Sachin Opening, and with Dravid being in such good touch this year as the 'rock' of the innings, I have no real doubts that Dravid cant deliver IF Sachin Fails.

And he fails very less opening the batting, he fails more in other positions.

 

[marc71178]

That kind of blows the whole number 3 argument!

 

[Rik]

Bye bye Ganguly ....well it would be if he wasn't Captain :!(

 

[aussie_beater]

That kind of blows the whole number 3 argument!

No it doesn't.....that's just 6 matches that he played as number 3, out of a total of 254 in his whole career.It doesn't prove anything.