Where does Dale Steyn stack up historically

[TheJediBrah]

Player vs player match-up is available nowadays.

I compiled the list of top-order(1-7) batsman Steyn bowled to, and checked their H2H stats.

Steyn averages 28.55 against top 7 with a strike rate of 52.91 and with an economy rate of 3.23.

These are not 100% accurate as there may be cases of a tail-ender batting as nightwatchman, a number 8 batting as a number 7, etc, but I think they are negligible as we are taking a large sample size.

Steyn against tail-enders averages around 10 with a ridiculous strike rate of around 20.

Very surprising. If Steyn really averages 28.5 against batsmen and McGrath averages 23 you'd have to do some real mental gymnastics to put them on the same level IMO

Have you got McGrath's stats against tail-enders? Because it can't be underrated the value of dismissing the tail and if Steyn was significantly better at that it is definitely a point in his favour

Here is a statistical comparison of the great fast bowlers of the last 50 years(sub 24 average with decent longevity). For the sake of simplicity, I have taken out factors like era adjustments and have given weightage like this.
Bowling Average : 7 points. Marshall gets full points here as he has the best bowling average. You can call it Marshall Standard.
Wickets Per match : 2 points. Call it Lillee standard.
Career wickets : 1 point. Anderson standard though he is out of reckoning here.

1.Glenn Mcgrath 9.54
2.Malcolm Marshall 9.48
3.Curtly Ambrose 9.32
4.Richard Hadlee 9.30
5.Joel Garner 9.20
6.Dale Steyn 9.01
7.Allan Donald 8.97
8.Dennis Lillee 8.75
9.Imran Khan 8.68
10.Shaun Pollock 8.61
11.Waqar Younis 8.56
12.Wasim Akram 8.50
13.Courtney Walsh 8.45
14.Michael Holding 8.26

wickets per match? ew. List is close to what you'd probably expect though.

 

[Bolo]

Player vs player match-up is available nowadays.

I compiled the list of top-order(1-7) batsman Steyn bowled to, and checked their H2H stats.

Steyn averages 28.55 against top 7 with a strike rate of 52.91 and with an economy rate of 3.23.

These are not 100% accurate as there may be cases of a tail-ender batting as nightwatchman, a number 8 batting as a number 7, etc, but I think they are negligible as we are taking a large sample size.

You mean you sat and manually entered the 150 (or whatever this number is) top order bats steyn bowled at and manually calculated his stats this way?

 

[TheJediBrah]

You mean you sat and manually entered the 150 (or whatever this number is) top order bats steyn bowled at and manually calculated his stats this way?

looks like he compiled them by their batting position in each game, as he goes on to say that nightwatchmen batting up the order were included

 

[Daemon]

So I had a bit of spare time and did the same -

Average against Openers
McGrath - 15.82
Steyn - 23.58

Average against Top 3
McGrath - 26.12
Steyn - 24.53

Average against Top 4
McGrath - 26.22
Steyn - 24.41

Average against Top 5
McGrath - 25.12
Steyn - 22.89

Average against Top 6
McGrath - 24.88
Steyn - 27.99


Basically McGrath was great at blowing the openers away, but when you factor in the #3 batsmen (usually the best batsman in the team) that average shoots right up. Steyn the better bowler imo.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Average against Openers
McGrath - 15.82
Steyn - 23.58

That's a bit surprising. I'd have expected them both to be well and truly sub-20.

Maybe this shows that Steyn was better (or at least as good) with the old ball than McGrath, but McGrath a lot better with the new ball?

 

[Prince EWS]

So I had a bit of spare time and did the same -

Average against Openers
McGrath - 15.82
Steyn - 23.58

Average against Top 3
McGrath - 26.12
Steyn - 24.53

Average against Top 4
McGrath - 26.22
Steyn - 24.41

Average against Top 5
McGrath - 25.12
Steyn - 22.89

Average against Top 6
McGrath - 24.88
Steyn - 27.99


Basically McGrath was great at blowing the openers away, but when you factor in the #3 batsmen (usually the best batsman in the team) that average shoots right up. Steyn the better bowler imo.

Can I have a link to the source of these stats? I hope you haven't fallen into the trap I've seen people fall into before with the useless cricinfo stat that would say a batsman who absolutely caned a bowler on the way to a double ton but got out to someone else, then got out to the original bowler mentioned in the next innings for 3 actually averaged 3 against the bowler despite only getting out to him once and slamming him for 80 runs.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Is ball by ball head to head data even available for the entirety of McGrath's career?

 

[Daemon]

Can I have a link to the source of these stats? I hope you haven't fallen into the trap I've seen people fall into before with the useless cricinfo stat would be say a batsman who absolutely caned a bowler on the way to a double ton but got out to someone else, then got out to the original bowler mentioned in the next innings for 3 actually averaged 3 against the bowler despite only getting out to him once and slamming him for 80 runs.

Haha nah ofc not. I’m at lunch now but will send the spreadsheet when I’m back at work. It might not be 100% accurate but it should be close.

 

[Prince EWS]

Why does everyone have secret spreadsheets? I trust that you've added it up right but I'm sure you're not actually going through the ball by ball commentary to do that, you're getting the raw-ish data from somewhere. Someone put up a link to it ffs.

 

[Daemon]

Here you go

 

[Gob]

So I had a bit of spare time and did the same -

Average against Openers
McGrath - 15.82
Steyn - 23.58

Average against Top 3
McGrath - 26.12
Steyn - 24.53

Average against Top 4
McGrath - 26.22
Steyn - 24.41

Average against Top 5
McGrath - 25.12
Steyn - 22.89

Average against Top 6
McGrath - 24.88
Steyn - 27.99


Basically McGrath was great at blowing the openers away, but when you factor in the #3 batsmen (usually the best batsman in the team) that average shoots right up. Steyn the better bowler imo.

I don't know from where these stats are coming up but there has never been a better bowler at dismissing the oppositions best batsman like McGrath.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Can confirm Daemon's stats with my own spreadsheet.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah, they well and truly accord with my own as well.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I don't know from where these stats are coming up but there has never been a better bowler at dismissing the oppositions best batsman like McGrath.

That's true. Doesn't seem to add up. He was freakish in that way. Just as likely to get Brian Lara out as Pedro Collins

 

[StephenZA]

I don't know from where these stats are coming up but there has never been a better bowler at dismissing the oppositions best batsman like McGrath.

I love this statement... almost like Steyn was not brought on time and time again to do exactly this and more often than not accomplished the task.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, they well and truly accord with my own as well.

I’ve not created a spreadsheet but I extracted some data from my Access database and the numbers check out

 

[Gob]

I love this statement... almost like Steyn was not brought on time and time again to do exactly this and more often than not accomplished the task.

Of course he did

McGrath did it better

 

[StephenZA]

Of course he did

McGrath did it better

As I said... I love these absolute definitive statements of truth...

 

[Gob]

As I said... I love these absolute definitive statements of truth...

They sort of come out of nowhere when you dismiss Brian Lara fifteen times.

 

[StephenZA]

They sort of come out of nowhere when you dismiss Brian Lara fifteen times.

And this would maybe be entirely relevant if Steyn had ever played against Lara...