Where do England go from here?

[simmy]

No chance, consider our home record and India's away record and we are clear favourites.

This is so true.

 

[pup11]

I personally think everything would be back to normal for England once England thump WI and India at home (in test's) and then after that they might play some awful odi cricket.


Do you guys also think England really don't care about odi cricket and are more inclined to do well in test matches???



They should also sack Fletcher as soon as possible because i recently heard that he might retain his job as coach even after the WC.

 

[Swervy]

I personally think everything would be back to normal for England once England thump WI and India at home (in test's) and then after that they might play some awful odi cricket.


Do you guys also think England really don't care about odi cricket and are more inclined to do well in test matches???



They should also sack Fletcher as soon as possible because i recently heard that he might retain his job as coach even after the WC.

there is no doubt that test cricket rules the roost in England!!! The last two Ashes series recieved much more media coverage (and in general more people just talked about it in normal conversation) than this World Cup.

That said ODIs are always sold out.

I think it is obvious that the team itself is more geared towards test cricket as well.

Re: Fletcher, I think the powers that be probably need to re-assess where he is taking the team,. I am not 100% about him being there any more. I think some new ideas would be welcome in the England set up

 

[marc71178]

He's due to start the county season on schedule with Glamorgan, apparently. Whether he makes it into the international reckoning in time for the Test series, who knows.

If he comes through the first 3 or 4 weeks without missing a game, I lay odds he'll be in the Test side - not sure for who though.

 

[Barney Rubble]

If he comes through the first 3 or 4 weeks without missing a game, I lay odds he'll be in the Test side - not sure for who though.

I think for the moment they might go with 4 bowlers, given Flintoff's poor form with the bat and our lack of a batting wicketkeeper.

Strauss
Cook
Vaughan*
Pietersen
Collingwood
Bell
Flintoff
Read+
Harmison
Hoggard
Panesar

Although if Harmison performs poorly early on, I would hope Jones would come in for him.

 

[Perm]

I think for the moment they might go with 4 bowlers, given Flintoff's poor form with the bat and our lack of a batting wicketkeeper.

Strauss
Cook
Vaughan*
Pietersen
Collingwood
Bell
Flintoff
Read+
Harmison
Hoggard
Panesar

Although if Harmison performs poorly early on, I would hope Jones would come in for him.

Going in with 4 bowlers would be the smart choice but England seem unwilling to do this, knowing that Flintoff may get overbowled. He isn't a test standard #6 and the sooner the England management realise that and put him down at #7 then they will become a better team.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Going in with 4 bowlers would be the smart choice but England seem unwilling to do this, knowing that Flintoff may get overbowled. He isn't a test standard #6 and the sooner the England management realise that and put him down at #7 then they will become a better team.

I think the thing that'll sway Fletcher this time (if it's still Fletcher in charge by then, that is), is the fact that we don't have anyone who comes close to being a respectable Test number eight batsman. Mahmood and Plunkett have both done the job so far, with success levels approaching nil, and if Jones is fit then he immediately jumps to the top of the queue of fast bowlers. That means he'd come in at 8, and that's not acceptable even given his bowling abilities.

 

[Perm]

I think the thing that'll sway Fletcher this time (if it's still Fletcher in charge by then, that is), is the fact that we don't have anyone who comes close to being a respectable Test number eight batsman. Mahmood and Plunkett have both done the job so far, with success levels approaching nil, and if Jones is fit then he immediately jumps to the top of the queue of fast bowlers. That means he'd come in at 8, and that's not acceptable even given his bowling abilities.

Fletcher does like runs coming from his #8 but it depends whether he values that more than Flintoff's fitness (potentially). I know it's unlikely that Flintoff will re-injure his ankle like he did against Sri Lanka last year, but given his history of ankle troubles and the angle at which his foot points at delivery it is still a scenario that isn't out of the question. My ideal side would be exactly the same as yours, with Trescothick and Jones coming back into the team if they were fit.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Fletcher does like runs coming from his #8 but it depends whether he values that more than Flintoff's fitness (potentially). I know it's unlikely that Flintoff will re-injure his ankle like he did against Sri Lanka last year, but given his history of ankle troubles and the angle at which his foot points at delivery it is still a scenario that isn't out of the question. My ideal side would be exactly the same as yours, with Trescothick and Jones coming back into the team if they were fit.

Yeah, the Flintoff issue is a quandary with him being out of form with the bat. I think until he starts scoring some runs again, we have to treat him as a bowler who bats really. That means he bowls his full complement of overs and his batting is a bonus. Shouldn't really be any fitness issues in that scenario.

 

[social]

In terms of ODIs, Eng should take a leaf out of Australia's book (hard to argue with the success of their strategy) and start planning for the next WC immediately following the completion of this one.

Players - Vaughan and Nixon must go immediately and be replaced with players of the future

These 2 are not good enough and will be too old to play in the next WC anyway.

Vaughan's captaincy seems to be the reason why people argue for his retention yet he's been out-captained by others (Ponting in this WC left him pointless) and it's not good enough to outweigh the liability that his batting has become.

Nixon's main claim to fame is his attitude. Well, guess what? The other teams couldnt give 2 hoots about his sledging when theyre trampling Eng in most games

Australia dropped one of the greatest ever ODI players (Bevan) in 2003 because he did not fit their plans for this WC tournament despite the fact that he was breaking records left right and centre at the time.

4 years is plenty of time to blood and mould young players with talent. Cook, for example, should be given the opportunity now to cement his spot for the next tournament in 2011

Selectors - take some responsibility ffs!

They seem to pick a squad and then leave it to others to pick the team. This results in favourites (e.g. Jones and Giles) getting a game when the world knows there are better alternatives

They either do the whole job or should be sacked

Coach - get rid of Fletcher

I think that it's relevant to consider that Eng's best period under his control coincided with a fully-fit and in form attack. Scaly could've coached that team to a degree of success.

However, when things have gone against them, they've often looked clueless and given the amount of authority that Fletcher has, he must take a lot of the blame (why, for example, the persistence with Vaughan and Flintoff in their respective batting positions? - hoping that the law of averages fall in their favour no doubt)

Of particular concern is how far, strategically, the English are behind everyone else.

They need someone who actually understands the ODI game (e.g. Moody, Rixon, Wright, Whatmore) to take control

Eng may still go on to win this wc (a win vs SA and then it's a lottery of the knock-out system) but it will be more by luck than design if they do and they should take this opportunity to change the structure of their ODI system

 

[pup11]

ECB formed a review team to find the reasons why England performed so badly in the recent Ashes series and the ECB were making big claims that England is targeting global-domination by 2011.



I mean was all that just a face saving act or are they doing anything serious about it, because if a team has made up its mind to ignore Odi cricket then how can they think of global-domination.

 

[Barney Rubble]

ECB formed a review team to find the reasons why England performed so badly in the recent Ashes series

How about, "we came up against the world's best team on their own turf with only half of our first XI fit and available"?

 

[andyc]

How about, "we came up against the world's best team on their own turf with only half of our first XI fit and available"?

All the same, the second best team in the world should not be losing a 5 match series 5-0. Hell, any team shouldn't be losing a 5 match series 5-0.

 

[Barney Rubble]

All the same, the second best team in the world should not be losing a 5 match series 5-0. Hell, any team shouldn't be losing a 5 match series 5-0.

Yeah, true. We were inexcusably dire.

 

[wpdavid]

ECB formed a review team to find the reasons why England performed so badly in the recent Ashes series and the ECB were making big claims that England is targeting global-domination by 2011.

Didn't the ECB once set a target of being world number 1 by 2007? And then put it back to 2009? Or is my ageing memory letting me down?

 

[wpdavid]

In terms of ODIs, Eng should take a leaf out of Australia's book (hard to argue with the success of their strategy) and start planning for the next WC immediately following the completion of this one.

Players - Vaughan and Nixon must go immediately and be replaced with players of the future

These 2 are not good enough and will be too old to play in the next WC anyway.

Vaughan's captaincy seems to be the reason why people argue for his retention yet he's been out-captained by others (Ponting in this WC left him pointless) and it's not good enough to outweigh the liability that his batting has become.

Nixon's main claim to fame is his attitude. Well, guess what? The other teams couldnt give 2 hoots about his sledging when theyre trampling Eng in most games

Broadly agree with the rest of your post, but only lazy journalists argue that Nixon is playing primarily because of his attitude. He was picked to score runs at number 7 or 8, which, during the WC, he's done reasonably well.

 

[wpdavid]

I think for the moment they might go with 4 bowlers, given Flintoff's poor form with the bat and our lack of a batting wicketkeeper.

Strauss
Cook
Vaughan*
Pietersen
Collingwood
Bell
Flintoff
Read+
Harmison
Hoggard
Panesar

Although if Harmison performs poorly early on, I would hope Jones would come in for him.

Keeper aside, the XI pretty much picks itself. Read is more debateable, of course.
I do wonder about our opening bowlers though. Harmison, we all know about: I don't think he should play, but the selectors think otherwise. But Hoggard needs to move up a gear too, I think, especially if we're only playing four bowlers. It would be interesting to see his stats for 2006. From memory, he was good in the 1st inning sof the 1st test in India dn in the 1st innings in Adelaide, and that's about it. Harmison's failings have meant that no-one's really noticed, but I think we need more from both our openers if we're going to be really competitive, and I worry that we'll stick with H&H until it's too late for the bigger tests ahead.

 

[honestbharani]

First of all, I don't think the Aussie way is something that guarantees success. They do a lot of good things with the way they run their cricket but they do a lot of mistakes as well. Dropping Bevan that early was one of them. I guess they had enough fire power in the side to cover for him but it still wasn't a great move.


For England, they need to find a decent opener or get Strauss back to form or Tresco back to his old comitted self sooner than later. Also, they need to find someone that can keep and bat decently. As long as that doesn't happen, they will always struggle to be consistently competitive. Flintoff needs to get his form back and it remains to be seen whether becoming captain will help him. Seriously can't see Vaughan playing after the WC in ODIs.

Bell
another opener
Pieterson
Collingwood
a batsman
Flintoff
Dalrymple
3 seamers or 2 seamers + Panesar


That side doesn't look that bad, but it all depends on who the 3 "other" players are.

 

[Poker Boy]

All the same, the second best team in the world should not be losing a 5 match series 5-0. Hell, any team shouldn't be losing a 5 match series 5-0.

Let's go back to 2001-02. SA (who were No 2 in the world at the time) played the Aussies in six Tests at home and away. After five Tests they were 5-0 down (they then won the dead sixth). Considering two of the five in a row they lost were at home (and one was the most one sided non timeless test of all time) I would say SA were even worse than England were in the recent Ashes series.

 

[Prince EWS]

First of all, I don't think the Aussie way is something that guarantees success. They do a lot of good things with the way they run their cricket but they do a lot of mistakes as well. Dropping Bevan that early was one of them. I guess they had enough fire power in the side to cover for him but it still wasn't a great move.


For England, they need to find a decent opener or get Strauss back to form or Tresco back to his old comitted self sooner than later. Also, they need to find someone that can keep and bat decently. As long as that doesn't happen, they will always struggle to be consistently competitive. Flintoff needs to get his form back and it remains to be seen whether becoming captain will help him. Seriously can't see Vaughan playing after the WC in ODIs.

Bell
another opener
Pieterson
Collingwood
a batsman
Flintoff
Dalrymple
3 seamers or 2 seamers + Panesar


That side doesn't look that bad, but it all depends on who the 3 "other" players are.

I'm quite a fan of Dalrymple to be honest, but I think he'd be fairly useless batting any lower than 6. He'd be most effective at 5 IMO. Bopara seems similar. England need Flintoff to bat 7 and be given free licence to hit out after the top 6 bat out the first 40 or so overs.