What's the problem with a two-tier test system?

[Neil Pickup]

ICC to consider two-tier format

The key point in that story is the point that it wanted to add five more full members.

If that happens there's no alternative to a second tier - which by default isn't Tests...

 

[Prince EWS]

Why is everyone so obsessed with averages and records?

If that is the ONLY arguement (which I know it isnt) against two tiers, then it is rediculous.

Im in favour of two tiers, but they have to work it out so that the second tier plays some of the top team countries sometimes, somehow (I dont know how....).

I dont care where the runs go in relation to records and averages. Cricket isnt about that.

 

[anzac]

Why is everyone so obsessed with averages and records?

If that is the ONLY arguement (which I know it isnt) against two tiers, then it is rediculous.

Im in favour of two tiers, but they have to work it out so that the second tier plays some of the top team countries sometimes, somehow (I dont know how....).

I dont care where the runs go in relation to records and averages. Cricket isnt about that.

it's not the be all & end all but cricket is all about stats & records................

there must be some distinction between the tiers otherwise a match / team / player from a lower tier game could end up creating a record that is unrealistic & unbeatable - much the same scenario now facing the ICC re ZIM v AUS..........

they could expand the current 'A' team format into a claytons Test series / calendar, with the minnows etc playing in comp with the 'A' teams from the big 8...........perhaps over a 4 day format rather than 5 days being reserved for full Test status only........

perhaps once the minnows start to beat the 'A' teams regularly in 'Test Series' then this could perhaps be a criteria towards them gaining full status........along with others such as admin & infrastructure; financial backing & planninng & sustainability; player / ground & coaching development programes; & a 5 year plan to achieve these objectives b4 eligability to the big league...........

 

[Ford_GTHO351]

In regards to records and stats if a two tier Test System was introduced.

The first tier would count as Tests

The second tier should either be counted as FC Matches or create a new stat record for the second tier matches.

 

[Neil Pickup]

In regards to records and stats if a two tier Test System was introduced.

The first tier would count as Tests

The second tier should either be counted as FC Matches or create a new stat record for the second tier matches.

Exactly as is happening with the InterContinental Cup...

 

[chicane]

they could expand the current 'A' team format into a claytons Test series / calendar, with the minnows etc playing in comp with the 'A' teams from the big 8...........perhaps over a 4 day format rather than 5 days being reserved for full Test status only........

perhaps once the minnows start to beat the 'A' teams regularly in 'Test Series' then this could perhaps be a criteria towards them gaining full status........along with others such as admin & infrastructure; financial backing & planninng & sustainability; player / ground & coaching development programes; & a 5 year plan to achieve these objectives b4 eligability to the big league...........

But shouldn't the minnows develop their own 'A' teams? Who will they play against. 'A' league cricket is important for fine tuning talent and should also be of a high standard. Like the current Zim side who ain't ready for international level. And in any case most 'A' teams would trounce teams like the current Zim side.
And though the sport has to grow, if so many more countries enter international cricket, schedules will get even busier and there will be huge gaps between two countries playing each other.

 

[Prince EWS]

it's not the be all & end all but cricket is all about stats & records................

there must be some distinction between the tiers otherwise a match / team / player from a lower tier game could end up creating a record that is unrealistic & unbeatable - much the same scenario now facing the ICC re ZIM v AUS..........

they could expand the current 'A' team format into a claytons Test series / calendar, with the minnows etc playing in comp with the 'A' teams from the big 8...........perhaps over a 4 day format rather than 5 days being reserved for full Test status only........

perhaps once the minnows start to beat the 'A' teams regularly in 'Test Series' then this could perhaps be a criteria towards them gaining full status........along with others such as admin & infrastructure; financial backing & planninng & sustainability; player / ground & coaching development programes; & a 5 year plan to achieve these objectives b4 eligability to the big league...........

I see your point, but you must see that i dont care!

Records/averages etc are not an arguement.

If people are so worried, create a new set of second tier test averages.

 

[bennyr]

Exactly as is happening with the InterContinental Cup...

Except for promotion / demotion.

There aren't enough Test nations to have a decent two tier Test system with two Test playing tiers.

Using a Test championship to promote/demote to and from Test status has huge inherent dangers and runs a big risk of doing more damage than good. Any country demoted would suffer immensely to maintain support.

It's an attractive idea to bring more countries into international cricket, but I think the nature of Test cricket and the limited number of countries puts too many barriers in the way.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Except for promotion / demotion.

There aren't enough Test nations to have a decent two tier Test system with two Test playing tiers.

Using a Test championship to promote/demote to and from Test status has huge inherent dangers and runs a big risk of doing more damage than good. Any country demoted would suffer immensely to maintain support.

It's an attractive idea to bring more countries into international cricket, but I think the nature of Test cricket and the limited number of countries puts too many barriers in the way.

Couldn't agree more.

Demotions are a big no-no (barring exceptional circumstances) and promotions should be much more thoroughly assessed than the Bangladeshi one was.

 

[biased indian]

The fundamental problem with a second tier of Test cricket is that it would not be Test cricket.

Test cricket is the highest possible standard for a player to play at - this system could see someone like Shakhti Gauchan, Jan-Berrie Burger or Klaas-Jan van Noortwijk achieve a career "Test" average of 50-60+

consider those as a statistics that is above FC but Below Test
say second tier test records.

 

[Neil Pickup]

consider those as a statistics that is above FC but Below Test
say second tier test records.

Which confirms the fact that with a second tier of Test cricket would not be Test cricket.

 

[Andre]

While a two Test system is a novel idea, IMO we would run the risk of the strong getting stronger and the weak getting weaker - imagine some of the hidings that would be handed out to the newbies if they were promoted to the top tier...

 

[age_master]

yeah but sides liek the USE, Holland and Kenya would have the chance to play alot more cricket and hopefully they will all get better. every 2 years the top team gets a crack at test level or something like that. i thiunk the idea definatley has alot of merit and could well be in action if the ICC wanted to withing 18 months.

i assume the 2nd teir would only be FC level (stats wise).. like A team games for countries like Australia and England.

 

[Ford_GTHO351]

Shane Warne seems to be in favour of a two division system

Time to separate champs from the chumps

 

[Slow Love™]

While a two Test system is a novel idea, IMO we would run the risk of the strong getting stronger and the weak getting weaker - imagine some of the hidings that would be handed out to the newbies if they were promoted to the top tier...

Not sure that's any worse than what we're getting now, really...

IMO, whether or not statistics are recognized as "test" level can be worked out - I personally am not too troubled by it. The objection that the second tier "wouldn't be test cricket" isn't that important, either - if we like the idea of the InterContinental Cup, then perhaps we could at least consolidate by name.

I like the idea of a promotion/demotion system, although I understand that it's the main source of opposition to the concept - what you'd probably find for a while is that the team that makes it to the bottom of the first tier may well get replaced by the team that tops the second tier the next year. One day though, they'll hang on, and somebody else will get demoted.

In some ways I feel it gives more tangible incentives to the minnows, who can count something positive from making the first grade, rather than just being there by default to be kicked around. And it would be better to assess exactly where the newer teams are at - in some ways, it seems like teams like Holland and Namibia are being a little shortchanged at times.

I agree that there are some rough edges that would need smoothing, but I still think it's a decent idea.