What makes a good test pitch?

[Furball]

Also got a couple of replies from Bumble on Twitter when the debate was raging; they just confirmed he's a tit. He was bitching that the pitch wasn't offering anything to the quicks, I pointed out that Morne Morkel had reversed his way through India's middle order. Bumble came back with a reply along the lines of "aha, but that's through the air, not off the pitch." I'm still waiting on a reply when I pointed out that you're kind of reliant on the pitch to get the ball to a state where it will reverse in the first place.

 

[cnerd123]

15 wickets in 4 sessions at Adelaide.

Not 1 word from any cricket media about the state of the pitch. Why? Cuz it's 'Good cricket' if fast bowlers seam and swing the ball around and 'Poor technique' when the batsmen nick off cheaply, but when the balls spins and bounces unevenly is a 'Poor pitch' and Unplayable' and something must be done to stop it.

Urgh.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Also got a couple of replies from Bumble on Twitter when the debate was raging; they just confirmed he's a tit. He was bitching that the pitch wasn't offering anything to the quicks, I pointed out that Morne Morkel had reversed his way through India's middle order. Bumble came back with a reply along the lines of "aha, but that's through the air, not off the pitch." I'm still waiting on a reply when I pointed out that you're kind of reliant on the pitch to get the ball to a state where it will reverse in the first place.

That's 70% of home test wickets for Waqar, and Shoaib.

 

[Flem274*]

15 wickets in 4 sessions at Adelaide.

Not 1 word from any cricket media about the state of the pitch. Why? Cuz it's 'Good cricket' if fast bowlers seam and swing the ball around and 'Poor technique' when the batsmen nick off cheaply, but when the balls spins and bounces unevenly is a 'Poor pitch' and Unplayable' and something must be done to stop it.

Urgh.

plenty of wahs about green tops in nz 2002 and england in recent ashes series tbf (and too dry pitches in ashes too)

it's being called a good pitch in part because channel 9 have to. they're banging on about how much it's moving but it's not really that much imo. moves more for pacers in the other three western countries and in the right west indian, sri lankan and indian overhead conditions you get much more swing .

 

[cnerd123]

Even the Indian commentators are waaahing about the Mohali and Nagpur pitches tho, which is annoying. Bhogle wrote an entire article bitching about it. Urgh. Double standards.

 

[GIMH]

It's not a double standard at all. A lot of the people complaining would have no issue with the way the ball was turning etc had it been day four or five. And on the same basis they'd expect seam movement earlier in the game

Swing is not really relevant to the pitch so that's not here nor there anyway.

 

[cnerd123]

It's not a double standard at all. A lot of the people complaining would have no issue with the way the ball was turning etc had it been day four or five. And on the same basis they'd expect seam movement earlier in the game

Swing is not really relevant to the pitch so that's not here nor there anyway.

A) Yea see, that's the problem. Why must a 'Good' pitch be one that seams first and spins later. Who created these standards. Is there a law that says we can't have spin from day 1? Are people calling pitches that seam and swing a lot and cause 3 days games poor pitches too?

B) Swing is relevant to the pitch to an extent. Otherwise we'd see swing bowlers swinging it everywhere no problem.

 

[Furball]

Swing is not really relevant to the pitch so that's not here nor there anyway.

Reverse swing is.

 

[GIMH]

A) Yea see, that's the problem. Why must a 'Good' pitch be one that seams first and spins later. Who created these standards. Is there a law that says we can't have spin from day 1? Are people calling pitches that seam and swing a lot and cause 3 days games poor pitches too?

B) Swing is relevant to the pitch to an extent. Otherwise we'd see swing bowlers swinging it everywhere no problem.

With regards to A, I guess it's more a tradition thing. Whether it's because I'm English or whatever, I always think of the early days being more seam reliant and your spinner is there to contain, and then second dig you want your spinner to do a job. I'm not arsed at all about pitches like Nagpur but I think that's how a lot if people see it, hence why j don't think it's a double standard.

B - Swing is based on conditions in the air/overhead. It's why sometimes English curators escape criticism for pancake decks, as they can still result in good matches if the overhead conditions are right.

Certain grounds will produce more swing than others though, but again it's due to surroundings not the deck.

Reverse swing is.

Not really. I know what you mean in terms of getting the ball into that state etc but the pitch doesn't actually make the ball swing.

 

[Furball]

Not really. I know what you mean in terms of getting the ball into that state etc but the pitch doesn't actually make the ball swing.

But it does. You struggle to get reverse if the outfield is lush and there's a nice covering of grass on the pitch.

You're right in that the actual swing itself is as the result of the ball's condition, not the pitch, but it's the pitch conditions which lead to the ball being in a state where it will start to reverse. Like I said, Jimmeh and England c2012 would've had a field day on that deck.

 

[cnerd123]

Surely more grass/moisture in the pitch = more swing? Isn't that the conventional wisdom?

 

[GIMH]

But it does. You struggle to get reverse if the outfield is lush and there's a nice covering of grass on the pitch.

You're right in that the actual swing itself is as the result of the ball's condition, not the pitch, but it's the pitch conditions which lead to the ball being in a state where it will start to reverse. Like I said, Jimmeh and England c2012 would've had a field day on that deck.

So we are agreed. The pitch doesn't cause the ball to swing

 

[Furball]

Surely more grass/moisture in the pitch = more swing? Isn't that the conventional wisdom?

Not necessarily.

 

[Furball]

So we are agreed. The pitch doesn't cause the ball to swing

But it does in the case of reverse

 

[harsh.ag]

Surely more grass/moisture in the pitch = more swing? Isn't that the conventional wisdom?

Seam movement, not swing. The seam of the ball plays a crucial role in both though.

 

[Howe_zat]

Surely more grass/moisture in the pitch = more swing? Isn't that the conventional wisdom?

Nah. Moisture in the air = more swing.

 

[Dan]

Moisture in the deck would, generally speaking, correlate with moisture in the air though, no? Dustbowls rarely occur with heavy cloud cover (excluding fungal infections), and greentops aren't often associated with days rocking 40 degree heat and 0% humidity (unless a curator loses his marbles and puts the sprinkler in the wrong place).

 

[indiaholic]

Nah. Moisture in the air = more swing.

Grass gives off moisture through transpiration. The greater the grass cover, the greater the moisture in the area above the pitch.

 

[cnerd123]

Yea I mean, I've seen cricket in the subcontinent on dry pitches and overcast conditions and it doesn't really swing much; but that just might be the SG ball so I don't know.

Have always taken a green pitch to mean swing and seam movement; with overcast/humid conditions assisting swing rather than causing it.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Grass gives off moisture through transpiration. The greater the grass cover, the greater the moisture in the area above the pitch.

Unless it's a garden of a pitch, I don't see grass cover being extensive or thick enough to cause this.

I think it's more to do with what Dan said and the fact that a greenish surface would protect the shine of the new ball way more than a typical SC pitch.