What made the mid-1980s Indian ODI team so good?

[Engle]

Aus always played to the best of their ability, whereas the WIndies of the 80's sometimes coasted complacently at times.
Playing against India in WC '85 with just 183 to score, they did not take it as seriously as they should have (from recollected reading). WIndian batsmen felt that the next batsmen would take them thru to victory, until they ran out of recognized batsmen by which time it was too late.

 

[Teja.]

chasingthedon analyzed the records of the ODI teams through the 70s and 80s and wrote a couple of excellent pieces.

This is how the ICC historical ratings for ODI teams looked like at the end of the 1979 world cup:

RATE TEAM
142 West Indies
108 England
108 Australia
80 Pakistan
72 New Zealand
29 India

These were the ratings before the '83 WC:

146 West Indies
123 Australia
103 England
95 New Zealand
77 Pakistan
62 India

It's completely ahistorical and revisionist to say that WI were not a dominant ODI force in comparision to the future great teams. In fact compared to the great ODI teams of the future who had a good W/L records, The WI team hardly ever lost at all and routinely absolutely routed their biggest opponents.

 

[Kirkut]

I wasn't a big fan of Windies the ODI side because they weren't the best when it came to winning pressure games, something which old Pak and Aus sides were good at. But anyways, it's a subjective opinion.

 

[honestbharani]

Hmmm.. ODIs were not taken seriously in the 80s.. Can't rate 80s Windies ODI team as great coz they failed in "pressure" games. Interesting argument. I do think ODIs were taken more seriously in the 80s than it was in the 70s juz like T20s in the 2010s are taken more seriously than they were in the 2000s. Does not mean the Windies 80s ODI side was not a great one though.

 

[trundler]

A good indicator would be when ODI specialists started popping up. In the second half of the 80s you had a few here and there like Simon O'Donnell.

 

[ankitj]

yeah i mean Len Pascoe had ATG bowling stats

No

 

[Arachnodouche]

We had lots of good bits and pieces journeymen cricketers. Sort of like how NZ before Boult, Williamson, Taylor, etc still managed to punch above their weight in global tournaments.

 

[stephen]

The West Indies were as dominant in ODIs in the 80s as South Africa were in the 90s.

Both had a win/ loss of something like 4:1 and neither won a world cup in their decade of dominance.

 

[TheJediBrah]

No

wut? If you don't consider a bowing average of 20.11 ATG level then there have never been any ODI ATG bowlers

 

[Red]

Or it could simply be explained by the fact that ODIs, including the WC, weren't as big a deal in the 80s as they were by 2000.

maybe it's just cos I'm from Australia, but out summer tri-series every year in the 80s seemed a bigger deal than the WCs

 

[honestbharani]

That Indian side had a lot of bits and pieces players but also a really good fielding side. Not the best in the world or anything but mostly very good fielders - safe catchers, swift movers and a few with very good arms from the deep. That is also a reason, I reckon.

 

[morgieb]

wut? If you don't consider a bowing average of 20.11 ATG level then there have never been any ODI ATG bowlers

Sample sizes, though in fairness 29 ODI's and 50 wickets is not quite tiny.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Sample sizes, though in fairness 29 ODI's and 50 wickets is not quite tiny.

irrelevant, that's not the point

 

[mr_mister]

i've noticed Indian fans push the longevity argument more than most, maybe coz some of their best players rely on the quantity over > quality argument to be elevated to the next tier

Kapil had meh averages but held the wicket taking record so that allows him to be in that big four 4 allrounder discussion

Sachin with the century and run record etc allows him to be placed above Ponting and Lara


Lenny Pascoe's short career looks pretty damn ATG on paper to me

 

[TheJediBrah]

Wait I thought we were using Len Pascoe's stats to prove that people didn't take ODI cricket seriously in the '80s, not that we were trying to claim that Len Pascoe was an ATG

 

[Daemon]

wut? If you don't consider a bowing average of 20.11 ATG level then there have never been any ODI ATG bowlers

stats is not a synonym for average

 

[honestbharani]

i've noticed Indian fans push the longevity argument more than most, maybe coz some of their best players rely on the quantity over > quality argument to be elevated to the next tier

Kapil had meh averages but held the wicket taking record so that allows him to be in that big four 4 allrounder discussion

Sachin with the century and run record etc allows him to be placed above Ponting and Lara


Lenny Pascoe's short career looks pretty damn ATG on paper to me

What a load of crap....

 

[TheJediBrah]

stats is not a synonym for average

so which of his stats aren't "ATG level"?

Strike rate 29.5? Economy of 4? nearly 2 wickets per match?

edit: and to reiterate, obviously not claiming that Len Pascoe was an ATG, that is patently ridiculous. That's also the point.

 

[honestbharani]

Is economy of 4 that impressive for the 80s?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Is economy of 4 that impressive for the 80s?

Probably about average, but taken together with the average, SR & wpm it's pretty hard to deny that those are ATG stats, albeit over a small sample

Is it even that small a sample for the 80s anyway?