What is the definition of a 'choke'?

[Plumbinfront]

I see Sri Lanka getting lots of flak for failing in four straight WC finals which is a first, but does it merit claims that they are the new ''chokers'' of cricket? They were never in the game in the 07 final against Aus and against Ind and Pak in 11 and 09, they didn't lose from winning positions. You could argue they choked in the latest final against WI but that is it. So what do fellow CWers think? What Sri Lanka have been doing does constitute choking? Or is it just their star players like Dilshan and Malinga who bottle it in finals?

 

[SteveNZ]

Choke is a term generally used by people who are incapable of analysing a sporting event in any depth.

Just because Sri Lanka lose four finals in a row doesn't make them chokers. As you say, they were generally dominated apart from this year, where still wouldn't call it a choke.

 

[Jono]

You're kidding if you think SL didn't choke against West Indies. Just watch Mahela bat after a few drops of rain came. Completely bottled it and started batting for duckworth lewis instead of understanding the importance of not being a ******. Wanted to reverse sweep/paddle everything. If Sanga didn't bat like a nervous man then call me Betty.

I agree the term choke is overused, but the T20 final was a deadset text book example. Look at the run outs. Completely panicked.

 

[SteveNZ]

I didn't watch it, I should jog on.

But my original point stands.

 

[doesitmatter]

Choke is a term generally used by people who are incapable of analysing a sporting event in any depth.

Just because Sri Lanka lose four finals in a row doesn't make them chokers. As you say, they were generally dominated apart from this year, where still wouldn't call it a choke.

But choking by the players is exactly for the reason you have mentioned "analysing too much in-depth" about how to perform in a pressure situation and completely getting confused" instead of playing with a free mind ..easier said than done though..It tends to happen more in Tennis..so many examples of players not able to close out matches..

 

[Jono]

Yeah tennis and golf are the greatest examples of choking in professional sport because you can't just let the clock save you when you have a lead. You have to win the match. Also they are individual sports so you can't rely on a teammate to get you over the line like you can with cricket some times.

When a team is making poor decisions at a moment in a match, or in a tournament, that they were not making earlier or usually would not make, due to the pressure, it is pretty much textbook choking. Same with if they cannot execute a simple skill or task that they would do generally fine at another point in the match or tournament. Allan Donald and Klusener do not attempt two suicidal runs in a row if they need 3 to win instead of 1.

No way in hell would Sanga have batted like he did if it wasn't a final.

 

[Debris]

The definition of a choke is where you lose after having a significant advantage by making errors which you have not displayed up until this point.

 

[robelinda]

Definition of choke? 99 world Cup semi final, king of chokes, and not just that, choking in a manner so hilarious you couldnt even make it up. There wasnt an Australian alive who thought we would win that one, just like the 96 world cup semi final.

 

[Jono]

Australia didn't win that one to be fair #pedantic

 

[BoyBrumby]

I don't think all "chokes" necessarily end in defeat, actually. Sometimes a team gets collectively "tight" when the finish line's in sight and still stumble across the line.

Edgbaston in 2005 was an example, IMHO. On the morning of day 4 yer crims were gone for all money; they needed 90-odd with just two tailend wickets to come. We all know how it ended, but England were getting tighter and tighter as the target came down. Extras were conceded from wides and overthrows and it looked like the monkey would remain on English backs for another series.

 

[Lostman]

You're kidding if you think SL didn't choke against West Indies. Just watch Mahela bat after a few drops of rain came. Completely bottled it and started batting for duckworth lewis instead of understanding the importance of not being a ******. Wanted to reverse sweep/paddle everything. If Sanga didn't bat like a nervous man then call me Betty.

I agree the term choke is overused, but the T20 final was a deadset text book example. Look at the run outs. Completely panicked.

Yea this, the last final was a dead set choke.
Mahela/Sanga completely bottled it.

 

[Lostman]

No way in hell would Sanga have batted like he did if it wasn't a final.

This is had been Sanga's way of batting for the past 3-5 years and is one of the reasons SL fans have been calling him to be dropped or move down the order. When Dilshan got bowled in the second over, I pretty much knew the chase was over.

Text book self full-filling prophecy, generally along these lines;

1. SL middle order sucks
2. Early wicket falls, close shop in the PP and go at 3RPO
3. 10-20 overs later, need to increase RR.
4. In ability to clear spread field results in a wicket, 90% of the time this is Sanga who has made a 54 (80) all in the PP.
5. In comes the middle order into an innings going no where.
6. Then comes the panicked slogs, half ass sweeps, reverse sweeps, runouts etc
7. Wash, rinse, repeat, with statement 1 getting added weight now.

Sanga/Mahela hid behind Jayasuriya for 10 years and now they bat every innings expecting Perera to perform miracles in the last 5-10 overs.There is a reason SL's last major win was in the 08 Asia cup when Jayasuriya still had some juice left.

 

[MrPrez]

I wish SL were the new chokers of world cricket. That said, they did choke in the final.

 

[Spooony]

Definition of choke? 99 world Cup semi final, king of chokes, and not just that, choking in a manner so hilarious you couldnt even make it up. There wasnt an Australian alive who thought we would win that one, just like the 96 world cup semi final.

You didn't win that one it was a draw. Australia finished higher than SA in the Super Six table, and that was determined by the obscurity of net run-rate

Do not flatter yourself. Cronje winning the toss on a Edgebaston pitch knowing to cause troubles for the team batting second. A South African team that lost to Zimbabwe and who's top and lower oder did not fire for the entire tournament almost. Same team who Australia beat by 5 wickets in the same tournament. The wicket of Cronje who he missed by a mile but was given out? South Africa were a 196 after 48 overs. At one stage it was 58 runs of 36 balls needed. You are telling me that everyone thought you would lose the match at that stage? We had no right to win that game and basically did not deserve it. Like against Sri Lanka, Like against Pakistan, Like Against England we were saved or got put close by Lance Klusener. Australia choked just as much as South Africa as they went through on technicality not a win. Klusener clubbed 31 of 16 balls to get us back in that game. In the end the better team went thru and won the world cup.

A choke happens if a team from an unseemingly un-losable (excuse the made up word) ends up losing as a result of the pressure (see NZ v SA at 2011 CWC). Not where a team that is equal to its opponent (or possibly inferior in talent) loses after never being in a commanding position. Australia were in command of that match till he clubbed that 2 fours 3 balls and no wickets in the bank. Klusener couldn't run singles with Donald on the otherside it was 2 or 4. It did not happen.

But how about Australia needing 117 to win in their last innings with a 23 year old called Hansie Cronje as captain in his first match. 5 runs to win Glen McGrath hit it straight back to De Villiers. Can we call that choke?

How about Australia scoring a world record 434 then went on to lose the game? Can we call that a choke.

Getting 332 against NZ couldn't defend it shall we call it a choke?

I can name many other matches as one can almost call any match in ODI cricket as a choke as 1 man can make the difference. We had to break world records in tests and ODI's to beat Australia. That is how good the Australian side were that you have to go to great lengths to topple them. They were always better than SA we just played above ourselves to stay competitive with them until the end.

As for the question did Sri Lanka choke? No. Sri Lanka was carried in the final by Jaywerdena who were they're best impact player.

He failed against South Africa in a 8-over dead group match (the only match Sri Lanka lost before the final) and then produced this run of scores – 44, 65*, 42, 42 and 33 (the last, his lowest in this sequence but still the highest scorer for his team in the final, had his team promptly folding up.) Sangakkara and Dilshan registered the highest impact with the bat after him (though much below him), and no-one else in the team justified his place in the team as a batsman

11 things you don't know about World T20 2012

 

[Dexter Morgan]

I read a nice article on ESPNCricinfo about the same topic by former India opener Aakash Chopra [0].

When a choke isn't a choke

Choke

• You Play Safe
• You don't take calculated risks
• You think too much

Panic

• You commit hara kiri
• You abandon rational thought
• Fear takes hold

[0] Aakash Chopra: The difference between choking and panicking | Specials | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[MrPrez]

You didn't win that one it was a draw. Australia finished higher than SA in the Super Six table, and that was determined by the obscurity of net run-rate

Do not flatter yourself. Cronje winning the toss on a Edgebaston pitch knowing to cause troubles for the team batting second. A South African team that lost to Zimbabwe and who's top and lower oder did not fire for the entire tournament almost. Same team who Australia beat by 5 wickets in the same tournament. The wicket of Cronje who he missed by a mile but was given out? South Africa were a 196 after 48 overs. At one stage it was 58 runs of 36 balls needed. You are telling me that everyone thought you would lose the match at that stage? We had no right to win that game and basically did not deserve it. Like against Sri Lanka, Like against Pakistan, Like Against England we were saved or got put close by Lance Klusener. Australia choked just as much as South Africa as they went through on technicality not a win. Klusener clubbed 31 of 16 balls to get us back in that game. In the end the better team went thru and won the world cup.

A choke happens if a team from an unseemingly un-losable (excuse the made up word) ends up losing as a result of the pressure (see NZ v SA at 2011 CWC). Not where a team that is equal to its opponent (or possibly inferior in talent) loses after never being in a commanding position. Australia were in command of that match till he clubbed that 2 fours 3 balls and no wickets in the bank. Klusener couldn't run singles with Donald on the otherside it was 2 or 4. It did not happen.

But how about Australia needing 117 to win in their last innings with a 23 year old called Hansie Cronje as captain in his first match. 5 runs to win Glen McGrath hit it straight back to De Villiers. Can we call that choke?

How about Australia scoring a world record 434 then went on to lose the game? Can we call that a choke.

Getting 332 against NZ couldn't defend it shall we call it a choke?

I can name many other matches as one can almost call any match in ODI cricket as a choke as 1 man can make the difference. We had to break world records in tests and ODI's to beat Australia. That is how good the Australian side were that you have to go to great lengths to topple them. They were always better than SA we just played above ourselves to stay competitive with them until the end.

As for the question did Sri Lanka choke? No. Sri Lanka was carried in the final by Jaywerdena who were they're best impact player.


11 things you don't know about World T20 2012

Firstly: Welcome to the site. Great to have some SAers arriving.

Secondly: The difference between Australia's "choking" and ours is that they have shown that they have the mental strength to win competitions. I reckon all nations to ever play tests have "choked" numerous times(besides maybe those that have never got themselves into a position of superiority). What they have over us is that they don't do it every single time they play in an important global tournament.

 

[robelinda]

Kallis averaging 8 with the bat in the T20 World Cup. CHOKE?

Somehow i think Australia's stunning record in big tournaments speaks for itself, SA's record of choking is nothing short of abysmal. For every match that Australia choked i could name 20 that SA choked, and choked BADLY. Everyone knows it. Wont even mention the 1996 world cup or 2003 world cup or 2007 world cup........

 

[Top_Cat]

You didn't win that one it was a draw. Australia finished higher than SA in the Super Six table, and that was determined by the obscurity of net run-rate

Do not flatter yourself. Cronje winning the toss on a Edgebaston pitch knowing to cause troubles for the team batting second. A South African team that lost to Zimbabwe and who's top and lower oder did not fire for the entire tournament almost. Same team who Australia beat by 5 wickets in the same tournament. The wicket of Cronje who he missed by a mile but was given out? South Africa were a 196 after 48 overs. At one stage it was 58 runs of 36 balls needed. You are telling me that everyone thought you would lose the match at that stage? We had no right to win that game and basically did not deserve it. Like against Sri Lanka, Like against Pakistan, Like Against England we were saved or got put close by Lance Klusener. Australia choked just as much as South Africa as they went through on technicality not a win. Klusener clubbed 31 of 16 balls to get us back in that game. In the end the better team went thru and won the world cup.

A choke happens if a team from an unseemingly un-losable (excuse the made up word) ends up losing as a result of the pressure (see NZ v SA at 2011 CWC). Not where a team that is equal to its opponent (or possibly inferior in talent) loses after never being in a commanding position. Australia were in command of that match till he clubbed that 2 fours 3 balls and no wickets in the bank. Klusener couldn't run singles with Donald on the otherside it was 2 or 4. It did not happen.

But how about Australia needing 117 to win in their last innings with a 23 year old called Hansie Cronje as captain in his first match. 5 runs to win Glen McGrath hit it straight back to De Villiers. Can we call that choke?

How about Australia scoring a world record 434 then went on to lose the game? Can we call that a choke.

Getting 332 against NZ couldn't defend it shall we call it a choke?

I can name many other matches as one can almost call any match in ODI cricket as a choke as 1 man can make the difference. We had to break world records in tests and ODI's to beat Australia. That is how good the Australian side were that you have to go to great lengths to topple them. They were always better than SA we just played above ourselves to stay competitive with them until the end.

As for the question did Sri Lanka choke? No. Sri Lanka was carried in the final by Jaywerdena who were they're best impact player.


11 things you don't know about World T20 2012

All the Aussie examples were definitely massive chokes (and there are heaps more) but the reason the people love attaching the tag to SA isn't just because the label fits more often than most; it's because the team and fans are so hilariously defensive about it so cheers for yet another example.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

There's a massive difference between choking, and being on the receiving end of a one-in-50 amazing performance from the opposing team, people seem to be getting the two mixed up a bit much imo.

Choking is making a complete hash of fairly simple key moments with little exceptional input from the other side.

 

[smash84]

Choking is making a complete hash of fairly simple key moments with little exceptional input from the other side.

Pakistan seem masters of it by this definition.