What does AB De Villiers need achieve to surpass Viv Richards as the ODI's greatest

[srbhkshk]

The mean ODI bowling average from 2000-2009 was 32.4
The mean ODI bowling average from 2010-2015 (when Sanga retired) was 32.6.

Run-making didn't suddenly become easier.

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

This is what I'm referring to.
Besides If you deny that run making is easier in this decade, then clearly ABD/Amla/Kohli are far superior to the likes of Tendulkar/Ponting/Sanga given that they are averaging 50 with S/R 90 "in the same batting conditions."

 

[viriya]

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

This is what I'm referring to.
Besides If you deny that run making is easier in this decade, then clearly ABD/Amla/Kohli are far superior to the likes of Tendulkar/Ponting/Sanga given that they are averaging 50 with S/R 90 "in the same batting conditions."

Only 2015 and 2016 are clearly above average. Sanga retired after 3 months into 2015. I agree that run-scoring has become easier since, but it wasn't clearly easier before.

AB > rest imo, Amla and to a lesser extent Kohli just haven't played enough matches.

 

[honestbharani]

I dont buy this Sanga was not great coz he was great in his last 5 years at all. He was that good and Ponting in ODIs is definitely over rated at least based on this thread. Sanga, Amla will complete my top 9 ODI batsmen list. Not sure how Zaheer and Haynes and Jones and the greats of that time should factor in though.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I dont buy this Sanga was not great coz he was great in his last 5 years at all.

Averaged a shade under 36 in his first 10 years. Never put together a consistent run of multiple great seasons before 2010.

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Black_Warrior]

the biggest black mark against AB when comparing to Viv is that he's faced some really crappy attacks the past decade... the best bowler of that era is on his team

We're talking ODIs mate. Steyn doesn't cut it as an ODI bowler

 

[Black_Warrior]

Yeah Sachin was amaze in World Cups. Also a pioneer of opening along with Jayasuriya. Jayasuriya gets all the credit and, while he deserves a lot of it, some of it should go to Sachin as well. Began doing it two years ahead of Jayasuriya in 1994.

Some one else mentioned this today to me. It's interesting as usually the Lankans or Kiwis take all the credit. The thing is though that Mark Waugh did it too. So not sure who I would credit it. It was just a progression. For me Lankans opening with Kallu and Jayasuriya was some thing special though. That was quite some thing .

Saeed Anwar is the guy that gets totally forgotten and ignored when talking about explosive ODI openers of the 90s

When he first played in Australia Benson and Hedges trieseries in 89, his aerial shots over the inner circle were criticised by the commentators at that time and they particularly said "kids, if you want to learn how to bat, this is what you don't do"

 

[Black_Warrior]

Sanga was always an average ODI batsman, or maybe above average but his last 2 years in ODIs, culminating in the World Cup 2015 with 4 hundreds put in a higher level and further demonstrates the importance of World Cups. Just the fact that more people watch and remember them just gives you those extra points in such discussions.

 

[Red]

IPonting in ODIs is definitely over rated at least based on this thread. .

How is he overrated? Guy was a gun. Could bat thru an innings then accelerate when necessary.

Also was probably the best inner ring fielder in ODIs ever, if not he was def in the top 4.

 

[srbhkshk]

Only 2015 and 2016 are clearly above average. Sanga retired after 3 months into 2015. I agree that run-scoring has become easier since, but it wasn't clearly easier before.

AB > rest imo, Amla and to a lesser extent Kohli just haven't played enough matches.

He may have retired 3 months into 2015, but the majority of 2015 ODIs were 3 months into it. Anyway, Sanga started his career in 00, and most of the years of 90s (which was the period of Sach/Ponting which didn't overlap with Sanga) averages 32-33, OTOH the period of Sanga which doesn't overlap with Sach/Ponting averages about 35-36 (and 38 for 2015), now this is the difference for average batsmen, For better batsmen you'd expect the divergence to be a bit more given that they have higher averages.

Now check this out - Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Practically everyone with high average has played in the same years I mentioned above, surely it's no coincidence?

Additionally the gap in your only 15/16 being above average is that even before 2015 - Amla/Kohli/Dhoni/ABD were all averaging 51+ with S/Rs of 90 or more so clearly they should be the undisputed GOATs.

Kohli not having played enough matches also seems a bit flimsy to me - He is already #4 on the list of top hundred scorers and #28 in terms of run scoring and He's played about the same amount of matches as Richards. Amla is not far behind in either of the categories.

 

[honestbharani]

How is he overrated? Guy was a gun. Could bat thru an innings then accelerate when necessary.

Also was probably the best inner ring fielder in ODIs ever, if not he was def in the top 4.

A gun for sure, but not the gun, which a few posts here seem to imply. Hence I said over rated, based on this thread.

 

[HashiraMadara]

I thought I was was joining a forum that's past Tendulkar ODI smoke and mirrors. It seems most refuse to evolve past Tendulkar worshipping I guess. I'll let it slide.

I see a bloke swallowing Ponting hard with paltry arguments that are meaningless.
I play more therefore I will make more runs. That's a simple fact requireing no extreme IQ to understand. Ponting's Aussies played million world cup games, I dare to say few if there are any players who played the same amount of World Cup matches as Ponting's team did. That gives a default reason to have more numbers as his team got him more World Cup games. As for his match winning. Check average of both man on won matches, still Ponting record is below ABD.

If Tendulkar was so super in World Cup why did he win it 2011? Are you folks so blind? ABD has the second best World Cup record behind Andrew Symonds! Averages at 68 for World Cups with strike rate of 111. Only Symonds is better at 90. Behind him is Viv Richards. With this record if he had a team with McGraths, Warnes, Solid openers etc like Ponting he would by default continue his excellent record.


Before you tell me about easy to bat era, I'll show you a stat(I've developed with my friend) that cuts across eras. What's shocking in this stat is that ABD is number 2 despite coming in at 4/5. It's called contribution percentage to the match. It takes all runs a player X scored in his matches divided by total runs in all those matches including opposition runs and multiply by 100 to give you an idea of how much player x scored compared to his peers in his career.

Amla is number 1 at 9.7%
ABD is number 2 at 9.3%
Viv Richards is number 3 at 9.1%
Dean Jones is number 5 at 9.0%
Tendulkar is number 4 at 8.97%

Followed by Virat 8.85 etc, Ponting is not even in the top 10

The list continues with kallis, Clarke, MSD, Bevan then Hussey! Your Ponting is nowhere to be found! He never made major contribution

 

[OverratedSanity]

Lmao this is probably the least Tendulkar-worshipping forum on the Internet.

 

[HashiraMadara]

hey wait I got 2 infractions for "Kohli fans" and "Tendulkar worshipers" and didn't get one for "swallowing Ponting". Nationality on the mod isn't a hard one to guess.

 

[Pratters]

Sanga retired from ODIs aged 38.
Ponting retired from ODIs aged 38.
Sachin retired from ODIs aged 39.

This argument is straight up invalid. Sanga was just plain better than them after 35. You can't just devalue his performances like that.

Do you ever bat for any players who are not Sri Lankan?

 

[harsh.ag]

hey wait I got 2 infractions for "Kohli fans" and "Tendulkar worshipers" and didn't get one for "swallowing Ponting". Nationality on the mod isn't a hard one to guess.

You got a warning for "Kohli fans" because that was the first post of its kind.

You got an infraction for "Tedulkar worshippers" because it's the last post of that kind.

 

[Pratters]

Averaged a shade under 36 in his first 10 years. Never put together a consistent run of multiple great seasons before 2010.

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

And? 36 was fine then. Sachin was much worse in his first 10 years.

 

[Adders]

hey wait I got 2 infractions for "Kohli fans" and "Tendulkar worshipers" and didn't get one for "swallowing Ponting". Nationality on the mod isn't a hard one to guess.

FMD mate, settle the **** down.

You've been here 5 mins and calling the mods out for national bias and the forum for beeing Sachin worshipers...........both of which could not be further from the truth. You've come in here like a bull in a china shop and smashed everyone that disagrees with you. Take a chill pill and get to know the folks here.......it's not a battle field mate.

Looks like you know your cricket and want to discuss your thoughts......great, that's what we're all here for. But you wont get far making assumptions of everyone that has a counter opinion with your current attitude.

Seriously, this is a great forum, enjoy it and make friends not enemies.

 

[OverratedSanity]

And? 36 was fine then. Sachin was much worse in his first 10 years.

No,36 was not fine. And no, Tendulkar was not much worse. He was the best odi batsman in the world by far from 94 on.

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[OverratedSanity]

Srsly wtf pratters, did you grow up in India or not? Half your childhood should have been watching Sachin smashing fools out of the ground. Saying Tendulkar was bad in the first 10 years (the 90s) might be the most egregiously wrong thing I've read in a while.

 

[Pratters]

Sangakarra was a great ODI batsman. Not sure why you would argue otherwise. If you remove the first three years of Sanga's career, his average is fine. The 36 for the first ten years bit you are saying is heavily skewed by the first 3 years. Utter nonsense to twist his career like that.

The key aspect of Sanga's career was that he could bat really well home or away. He is right up there.