What does AB De Villiers need achieve to surpass Viv Richards as the ODI's greatest

[Pratters]

At Shri and HonestBharani: Either contribute to the debate or STFU.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Any thread comparing any batsman to Viv Richards is doomed.

 

[Pratters]

Cricket is not just played outside Asia. brainer.

You are clearly ignoring Dhoni not being as good outside Asia. It hurts him when compared to other all time greats like SRT and Viv.

 

[srbhkshk]

Well, we seem to rate the players very similarly so I am not gonna nitpick here and I do rate Ponting as a better ODI bat than Sanga but he definitely did not face conditions any tougher to bat on than Sanga did.

And reg. engaging Pratters, try dropkicking the wall now.

It's not conditions, it's the time they batted in. But fair enough.

I honestly have no idea how to argue with " That's a difference of 0.5" and "Not outs boost averages", So I'll let it go.

 

[honestbharani]

At Shri and HonestBharani: Either contribute to the debate or STFU.

We are contributing to the real debate. Chill out.

 

[Pratters]

It's not conditions, it's the time they batted in. But fair enough.

I honestly have no idea how to argue with " That's a difference of 0.5" and "Not outs boost averages", So I'll let it go.

lol. Not outs didn't boost Dhoni's average?

 

[honestbharani]

You are clearly ignoring Dhoni not being as good outside Asia. It hurts him when compared to other all time greats like SRT and Viv.

Said no one except you.

 

[Pratters]

Said no one except you.

Not really. I was not the first person who brought up that Dhoni has zero centuries outside Asia on this thread. Also, it is irrelevant whether I was the only person making the point or not.

 

[srbhkshk]

lol. Not outs didn't boost Dhoni's average?

They did, but do you know why is that? Because he was a good enough batsman to not get out.

Before you argue that this is easy to do, give me the examples of hordes of 6s and 7s who average more than 40.

 

[honestbharani]

Not really. I was not the first person who brought up that Dhoni has zero centuries outside Asia on this thread. Also, it is irrelevant whether I was the only person making the point or not.

MSD is one of THE ATG ODI batsmen ever. Anyone who has seen him bat will know that. And how the **** is his record bad outside Asia and Sanga's good?

 

[Pratters]

They did, but do you know why is that? Because he was a good enough batsman to not get out.

Before you argue that this is easy to do, give me the examples of hordes of 6s and 7s who average more than 40.

Bevan averages far more batting lower, no? Chanderpaul's average was boosted by not outs, no? If Sanga and Dhoni are averaging the same outside Asia, it would tilt towards Sanga, not Dhoni for away games as Dhoni has so much more portion of not outs.

 

[Pratters]

MSD is one of THE ATG ODI batsmen ever. Anyone who has seen him bat will know that. And how the **** is his record bad outside Asia and Sanga's good?

MSD hasn't made a century outside Asia and he shouldn't be in the discussion of greatest ODI batsmen. Comparing him to the likes of Tendulkar and Viv and ABD is dire. Sangakarra has made centuries outside Asia btw.

 

[honestbharani]

Bevan averages far more batting lower, no? Chanderpaul's average was boosted by not outs, no? If Sanga and Dhoni are averaging the same outside Asia, it would tilt towards Sanga, not Dhoni for away games as Dhoni has so much more portion of not outs.

Do you even know what you are talking about?

 

[srbhkshk]

Bevan averages far more batting lower, no? Chanderpaul's average was boosted by not outs, no? If Sanga and Dhoni are averaging the same outside Asia, it would tilt towards Sanga, not Dhoni for away games as Dhoni has so much more portion of not outs.

Hordes != 3, Bevan is also an ATG and Chanderpaul is also good enough. But the specialty of Dhoni is that he retains his enormous average in spite of striking at a much superior strike rate, there is no one else even comparable on that front at #6.

 

[honestbharani]

MSD hasn't made a century outside Asia and he shouldn't be in the discussion of greatest ODI batsmen. Comparing him to the likes of Tendulkar and Viv and ABD is dire. Sangakarra has made centuries outside Asia btw.

Pratters does not understand the difference between batsmen batting in top order and the lower middle order and he shouldn't be participating in the discussion of greatest ODI batsmen. All 4 of them batted higher than MSD, btw.

 

[Pratters]

Hordes != 3, Bevan is also an ATG and Chanderpaul is also good enough. But the specialty of Dhoni is that he retains his enormous average in spite of striking at a much superior strike rate, there is no one else even comparable on that front at #6.

Dhoni's strike rate outside Asia is not that great actually. 84.

 

[Pratters]

Pratters does not understand the difference between batsmen batting in top order and the lower middle order and he shouldn't be participating in the discussion of greatest ODI batsmen. All 4 of them batted higher than MSD, btw.

Fairbrother, Symonds, Bevan, Jonty Rhodes didn't.

 

[Pratters]

Dhoni's amazing performances in Asia makes one think that he as as good as the likes of other All time batting greats in ODIs. However, we don't consider Inzamam a batting great in ODIs as his averages outside Asia aren't as good. Dhoni doesn't have the technique to be as successful outside Asia as he is in Asia. That hampers is legacy compared to other greats who are great in Asia and outside Asia both. It is not that easy to understand if you put your tint of Dhoni fandom aside.

 

[srbhkshk]

Dhoni's strike rate outside Asia is not that great actually. 84.

Compare 84 to Bevan and Chander, also are you basically gonna give 0 weight to matches in Asia? Cricket is also played here you know.

 

[Pratters]

Compare 84 to Bevan and Chander, also are you basically gonna give 0 weight to matches in Asia? Cricket is also played here you know.

Bevan batted in another era. Will you say 84 for Bevan is same as 84 for Dhoni? Among modern players, David Miller has a strike rate of 100+ outside Asia while Dhoni has 84.

I am not giving zero weightage to Dhoni's performances in Asia. However when you compare to other greats who were great at both places, Dhoni misses out.