What did Sydney Barnes bowl?

[ankitj]

For a off spinner the seam (rather the direction of rotation) should be in // position (top spinner || and leggie \\). Because hitting the seam provides bounce most spinners spin it along the seam. The rotation is towards the batsman. OK, it jas lateral and foward spin both. The degree of spin will depend on how much each component is.

For a in swinger the seam is in the exact position to that of an off break (//). But this one spins towards bowler due to the release.

Does the spinner care about seam at all? I thought it just the rotations that result in the spin. What you are saying is that along with rotations, if the ball lands on the seam that is additionally good for extra bounce. But is it even possible for a spinner to control a rotating ball enough to make land on the seam?

 

[archie mac]

Some old names on here, a massive zebra knew his stuff and Tapi may have been the most knowledgeable poster ever to grace these boards (SJS excepted)

Yes, they have been replaced by other fine contributors

 

[Migara]

Does the spinner care about seam at all? I thought it just the rotations that result in the spin. What you are saying is that along with rotations, if the ball lands on the seam that is additionally good for extra bounce. But is it even possible for a spinner to control a rotating ball enough to make land on the seam?

Exactly. What I am denoted by // for a off spinner is that the perpendicular to the rotational axis. When this perpendicular defines the seam, the ball spins and bounces more, because the seam grips more. When the seam is all over the place you normally don't expect spin. The only time you expect it is when the rotation is along the seam (or seam stays up right). Well see some close up clips of Swann and Harbhajan, they ball with an up right seam.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Sorry, that's not possible. Swing and spin cannot occur together. For spin to occur ball has to spin forwards with an angled seam. For swing to occur, ball has to spin backwards to keep the seam straight. Backward spun balls do not turn, or turn very little (unless it is a tennis ball), and forward sun balls do not swing. The swing which early literature describes IMO is the drift that spinners get.

A medium-pace inswing bowler can swing a ball in and get it to break away in the same delivery. Haven't you come across it before? You angle the seam to a wide-ish fine leg, and as long as the seam presentation is very good it should not only swing, but also spin due to the ball rotating down the seam at an angle.

 

[Migara]

A medium-pace inswing bowler can swing a ball in and get it to break away in the same delivery. Haven't you come across it before? You angle the seam to a wide-ish fine leg, and as long as the seam presentation is very good it should not only swing, but also spin due to the ball rotating down the seam at an angle.

No it cannot happen. The tell tale example is Grant Bradburn, who spins the ball back wards (although regarded as an off break bowler). There is no spin at all off the pitch, but ball moves in air before pitching. Just You tube Grant Bradburn and see what happens.

Ball swinging and breaking off the pich is called the seam movement and it has no bearing on the amount of spin on the ball.

 

[kyear2]

So basically we still dont really have a clue do we. From what I have gleaned, he bowled really fast spin, that also seamed.
So some thing like a fast Kumble or O'Reilly. But then then he was also compared to medium pace Bedser.
Confusing really.

 

[Migara]

What I feel is that Barnes is a bowler capable of Larwood esque speeds, but would have wanted a true fast bowlers action for it. And with a true fast bowlers action, bowling spin, is a zero possibility. It would have wanted a different action to bowl spin, and batsmen would have readily picked it off his action if that happened. The best option is to get in between, an action allows both spin and pace. That would have allowed him to bowl both seam up and rolled deliveries off a same action, albeit slower than what he is capable of. Having said that, he must have produced some quick spells too when the conditions suited.