What did Bradman think of that Windies team?

[G. S. Kohli]

Not surprised Bradman brought up the spin issue. Pretty much the only weakness of this side though of course.

Most player of Westindies, Aus, Nz, England or SA always struggle vs Quality spin in Asian subcontinent

 

[TheJediBrah]

Don’t know if Sunny is truly a bigot. Have heard him praising Viv and Sobers on plenty of occasions during interviews and commentary.

Which is exactly what you'd do if you were outed as a bigot

 

[Chrish]

From Bradman's foreword to the 2nd edition of the Wisden Book of Test Cricket, written in February 1985:

"There has been much speculation as to whether the current West Indian team is the best of all time. Comparisons have been made with the Australian teams of 1921 and 1948. The question provokes animated and interesting discussion but can never produce an authoritative answer.

Of course they are a great side. As I've said earlier, the best fielding team I've ever seen. Added to that, they have probably the best combination of fast bowlers in one side. But that particular strength immediately predicates a lack of balance when conditions don't favour speed - a fact so nakedly exposed when the West Indians were handsomely beaten in a Sydney Test, mainly through the bowling of Australia's spinners. The West Indian attack lacked adequate spin under these conditions and the batsmen (including even the great Richards) could not handle the unfamiliar spin of Holland and Bennett. Yet nobody with a knowledge of his subject and in his right mind would rate Holland and Bennett in the same class as Grimmett and O'Reilly.

Comparing great sides of different eras must be inconclusive. I always thought my 1948 side the best I saw, though conceding it would have been hard pressed to beat Armstrong's 1921 combination. Yet Armstrong, when asked whether his team was better than Joe Darling's 1902 side replied 'the 1902 side could play 22 of our chaps and give them a beating'. Armstrong played in both so he should know."

(It may be worth noting that, judging by his comments quoted in Fingleton's "Cricket Crisis", Armstrong was definitely a "players were much better when I was young" type).

This is the sort of answer I was looking for. Thanks!

 

[Chrish]

Not surprised Bradman brought up the spin issue. Pretty much the only weakness of this side though of course.

I mean I am not discounting his view but spin bowling didn’t really hinder WI team in the grand scheme of things. They didn’t have much problems in india/ pak.

 

[Chrish]

Which is exactly what you'd do if you were outed as a bigot

Normally yes. But to me, his respect seems genuine whenever he spoke of those players during the times I heard him.

 

[Spofforth]

There is a couple of humorous anecdotes re Bradman and the Windies (first one vouched by Dean Jones and Merv Hughes). After a day where Merv gave stiff opposition (72 not out) he went to the Windies dressing room at Adelaide to meet the team (with an attack of Marshall, Ambrose, Walsh and Patterson). Apparently Patterson was unimpressed with the diminutive little old man and looking down at him explained that if he had bowled against him he would have killed him. To which Bradman responded something like "you couldn't even get Merv Hughes out, you'd have no chance against me, mate".

Another one where a journo asked Bradman how he thinks he would have fared against such a fierce attack. Bradman acknowledged it would be difficult while also explaining "although I am 80 years old".

 

[Socerer 01]

is the slander against Bradman from GSK tolerated because everyone else has him on ignore

 

[Coronis]

"I should play in Asia than i can gave idea to others" -- Late Bradman.

Bradman never play anywhere than Aus & England otherwise his Average not extremely High. (limited test matches of this career)

It’d be higher. Did you see the Indian attack during his career?

 

[Spofforth]

It’d be higher. Did you see the Indian attack during his career?

I agree.

The fact is that no other batsman is history was so far ahead of his peers, in his own era. He was a freak.

 

[Migara]

I mean I am not discounting his view but spin bowling didn’t really hinder WI team in the grand scheme of things. They didn’t have much problems in india/ pak.

they would only struggle against a Murali / Warne or Kumble. Having said that Bradman's 1948 team al so would have against these bowlers.

 

[Slifer]

they would only struggle against a Murali / Warne or Kumble. Having said that Bradman's 1948 team al so would have against these bowlers.

It completely depends on where the matches are played. Warne on a spinning wicket such as old Sydney wickets yes, but on typical hard Aussie wickets no. In the WI, Warne has no chance. Same applies to Murali and Kumble, they'd do well at home but have absolutely no chance in the Caribbean. Scratch that, WI batsmen went to India in 1994 and did just fine vs Kumble. So WI batsmen of the 80s won't necessarily struggle in India vs him as well.

Bradman brings up Holland and Bennett conveniently forgetting that the test WI lost was literally the last of a series WI already won. WI toured India and Pakistan in the 70s and did fine vs their spinners. And as good Grimmett and O'Reilly are they'd likely do well in Australia but get carted around in the WI.

 

[Coronis]

Its quite sad that O’Reilly retired just before 1948.

Barnes
Morris
Bradman*
Harvey
Hassett
Miller
Tallon+
Lindwall
Johnston
O’Reilly
Toshack

is ridiculous

 

[Saket1209]

It completely depends on where the matches are played. Warne on a spinning wicket such as old Sydney wickets yes, but on typical hard Aussie wickets no. In the WI, Warne has no chance. Same applies to Murali and Kumble, they'd do well at home but have absolutely no chance in the Caribbean. Scratch that, WI batsmen went to India in 1994 and did just fine vs Kumble. So WI batsmen of the 80s won't necessarily struggle in India vs him as well.

Bradman brings up Holland and Bennett conveniently forgetting that the test WI lost was literally the last of a series WI already won. WI toured India and Pakistan in the 70s and did fine vs their spinners. And as good Grimmett and O'Reilly are they'd likely do well in Australia but get carted around in the WI.

WI side of 80s will always be the best test side ever. Just on spinning wicket a combined Asian 11 may defeat them. But still they have marhsall and walsh who did well in subcontinent. Even Roberts and holding has good record. The loss in Sydney was the 5th test of both the series when series was already done and dusted. Plus there fast bowler was already exhausted by that time. The only team which can give them a tough fight was the Aus team of 1999-2005 mainly because they have really good batsman. On fast bowling wicket no chance for any team.

 

[Migara]

It completely depends on where the matches are played. Warne on a spinning wicket such as old Sydney wickets yes, but on typical hard Aussie wickets no. In the WI, Warne has no chance. Same applies to Murali and Kumble, they'd do well at home but have absolutely no chance in the Caribbean. Scratch that, WI batsmen went to India in 1994 and did just fine vs Kumble. So WI batsmen of the 80s won't necessarily struggle in India vs him as well.

Bradman brings up Holland and Bennett conveniently forgetting that the test WI lost was literally the last of a series WI already won. WI toured India and Pakistan in the 70s and did fine vs their spinners. And as good Grimmett and O'Reilly are they'd likely do well in Australia but get carted around in the WI.

I would disagree as usual because your information is wrong. Warne struggled in WI, that I will give you. But Murali even in his first ever tour to WI in 1997, without the doosra took 16 wickets in two matches averaging @ 15.4. So your argument falls flat on face about Murali. Kumble averaged 30.3 taking 19 wickets in five matches in West indies prior to 1998. Just because Warne struggled in WI it doesn't mean Murali and Kumble did.

In 1994 WI batsmen went to India and got bamboozled by spin. It was fast bowlers brilliance, and Jimmy (P)Adams' tenacity that took them to a 1-1 draw. Lara the best player of spin in the side was done by Raju multiple times.

So no, your argument don't have support in historical context.

WI getting owned by Holland and Bennet was a one off thing. I would not think they will get owned by ordinary spinners.

 

[Migara]

WI side of 80s will always be the best test side ever. Just on spinning wicket a combined Asian 11 may defeat them. But still they have marhsall and walsh who did well in subcontinent. Even Roberts and holding has good record. The loss in Sydney was the 5th test of both the series when series was already done and dusted. Plus there fast bowler was already exhausted by that time. The only team which can give them a tough fight was the Aus team of 1999-2005 mainly because they have really good batsman. On fast bowling wicket no chance for any team.

I don't think you can make such assumptions when the opposition is led b y a certain Glenn McGrath. People underestimate how ridiculously good was McGrath. McGrath, Gillespi and Lee on a fast bowling wicket is serious threat to edges, toes and the head alike.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

I don't think you can make such assumptions when the opposition is led b y a certain Glenn McGrath. People underestimate how ridiculously good was McGrath. McGrath, Gillespi and Lee on a fast bowling wicket is serious threat to edges, toes and the head alike.

Lee wasn't good in tests. Would be weaklink of the attack

 

[Saket1209]

I don't think you can make such assumptions when the opposition is led b y a certain Glenn McGrath. People underestimate how ridiculously good was McGrath. McGrath, Gillespi and Lee on a fast bowling wicket is serious threat to edges, toes and the head alike.

Wi didnt lose a single test at perth in the 20th century. In 1997 McGrath and Gillespie was also there. They even couldn't stop the relatively weak wi of 1996-1997 how can you think they will do it against the mighty WI. Ambrose was enough for them in 1997. Even the strong bowling attack of Lillie and Thompson which defeated WI 5-1 in 75 couldn't win the match at Perth.

 

[Saket1209]

I don't think you can make such assumptions when the opposition is led b y a certain Glenn McGrath. People underestimate how ridiculously good was McGrath. McGrath, Gillespie and Lee on a fast bowling wicket is serious threat to edges, toes and the head alike.

And you are underestimating how good was WI of 80s. On spinning wicket maybe there was even a chance for great teams like Aus but on fast bowling pitch no chance. Marshall would alone to destroy the Aus. batting lineup.

 

[Spofforth]

Lee wasn't good in tests. Would be weaklink of the attack

Agree with that Adorable (great username by the way ). Lee was an extremely good ODI bowler, not so great in tests.

No pace attack comes close to the Windies. McGrath and Gillespie were helped greatly by having Warne (and Mcgilla at times) which made them a more rounded attack. IMO Warne was one of the greatest cricketers ever. The argument there is that the Windies were so good they didn't need a world class spiner like Warne.

As to which teams were better, different eras so it just depends what you wish to believe.

 

[Burgey]

WI side of 80s will always be the best test side ever. Just on spinning wicket a combined Asian 11 may defeat them. But still they have marhsall and walsh who did well in subcontinent. Even Roberts and holding has good record. The loss in Sydney was the 5th test of both the series when series was already done and dusted. Plus there fast bowler was already exhausted by that time. The only team which can give them a tough fight was the Aus team of 1999-2005 mainly because they have really good batsman. On fast bowling wicket no chance for any team.

It's uncontroversial to say the WI side of the 80s had the best fast bowling attack of all time, but they also had guys like Gus Logie, Keith Arthurton and Carl Hooper in the middle order for the latter part of that decade. Their bowlers were just good enough they didn't really need even very good players below four in the batting order.

A match up between that side and the Aus team of the late 90s/ 2000s would be a great series. Contrasting styles and different strengths within the playing XIs. Would be a ball tearer.