Wastemen etc

[MW1304]

I argued as to why it is not a good indication. I didn't provide the odd example where it wouldn't work - I showed how even in a best case scenario this method would end up showing the batsman as losing to some bowler or the other in the opposition attack.

For example Bell averaged 27 against Praveen, KP averaged 23 against Sreesanth and Cook averages 19 against Ishanth in the series gone by.

The trouble is that you keep using hypothetical situations, which do not mirror what actually happened. Of course there are situations where the average is misleading with such a small sample size, but when you factor in how many times he got him out over a two-match series on top of how economically he bowled to him, the evidence is pretty clear. Only during his hundred did Gambhir ever look comfortable against Swann, and even then he still managed to get him out.

Even those strange examples make more sense when you consider them: Praveen bowled pretty well all series, to all batsmen; and Cook was generally worked out by the Indian opening bowlers (including Ishant), only his double would have boosted that into double-figures tbf; the KP one is a little misleading admittedly. It can be a useful stat, though, and is certainly apt in the Gambhir/Swann case - I'm not sure how deniable it is that Swann has always bowled very well to him, no matter how well he has played against other England bowlers at different times.

 

[shankar]

The trouble is that you keep using hypothetical situations, which do not mirror what actually happened. Of course there are situations where the average is misleading with such a small sample size, but when you factor in how many times he got him out over a two-match series on top of how economically he bowled to him, the evidence is pretty clear. Only during his hundred did Gambhir ever look comfortable against Swann, and even then he still managed to get him out.

The only bowlers who Gambhir scored at a lower rate off were Panesar and Broad (who played only the 2nd test) who were both terrible. Flintoff and Anderson were much more economical to him.

And you're not understanding the logic of my arguments. I'm not using rare unthinkable hypothetical situations. I'm showing how in a perfectly normal, expected scenario the stat would prove to be useless.

Even those strange examples make more sense when you consider them

Of course there are good explanations for those stats! That's the point. The stat is practically useless because it cannot add anything to confirm or dissuade your impression of how a batsman did against a bowler.

I'm not sure how deniable it is that Swann has always bowled very well to him, no matter how well he has played against other England bowlers at different times.

Swann bowled reasonably well to him in that series as to all the other batsman. Didn't really cause a great deal of trouble though.

 

[DriveClub]

Can't play pace, can't play spin so what does he actually play? So obviously a LOI player drafted in to the Test arena. If this is India's future I fear for it after the senior 3 retire.

 

[TT Boy]

Can't play pace, can't play spin so what does he actually play? So obviously a LOI player drafted in to the Test arena. If this is India's future I fear for it after the senior 3 retire.

JP Duminy won a test match with the same deficiencies. TBF to Raina (and JP), they both can play spin just struggle against the offies.

 

[OMM!]

Watching Gambhir and Raina against Swann, you can see why India don't want UDRS!

Bat and pad together defending on the front foot! Asking for trouble as a lefty!

Even Dravid is guilty of this as well, with his padding up! Playing 'old school'.

Once UDRS is in for everyone, India's struggles will only get worse!

But as for Raina, he is a very mediocre batsman, with too many technical flaws!

 

[karan316]

He is best suited for the ODIs, and I don't think we need to pick players like Raina for tests, there are a lot of more specialists available who will offer much more if they are given proper chances, Raina always finds it difficult facing quality bowlers, he was such a waste in South Africa, and its really funny to see how many opportunities he gets to bowl, he gets wickets only when the batsmen throw it away.

 

[slippy888]

Dilshan

He has to take the blame for all this sri lankas batting collapses, 1st test match v England this summer sri lanka getting bowled out in 3 hours, now sri lanka getting bowled out for 104 against the aussies. These collapses must be due to lack of team focus, the same team that was led by kumar never had these poor performances.

 

[OMM!]

Needs to go back down to 6.

Open with Tharanga and Paranavitana. KS at 3, MJ at 4 and TS at 5.

 

[Himannv]

Open with Tharanga and Paranavitana. KS at 3, MJ at 4 and TS at 5.

Thirimanne ahead of Tharanga in tests. Still would prefer Dilshan to either of them as an opener for the moment. I dont think he's that effective down the order.

But yes, Dilshan's performances are pivotal as far as team performances with the bat is concerned. He needs to step it up.

 

[TT Boy]

Needs to go back down to 6.

Open with Tharanga and Paranavitana. KS at 3, MJ at 4 and TS at 5.

Dilshan averages over 50 opening. Has a good record at 6 also but he is statistically the best opener Sri Lanka has ever had.

 

[TT Boy]

Thirimanne ahead of Tharanga in tests. Still would prefer Dilshan to either of them as an opener for the moment. I dont think he's that effective down the order.

But yes, Dilshan's performances are pivotal as far as team performances with the bat is concerned. He needs to step it up.

Averages 45+ at 6 tbf but you can't have him there now.

 

[SamSawnoff]

He has to take the blame for all this sri lankas batting collapses, 1st test match v England this summer sri lanka getting bowled out in 3 hours, now sri lanka getting bowled out for 104 against the aussies. These collapses must be due to lack of team focus, the same team that was led by kumar never had these poor performances.

You are harsh. This team doesn't have a coach and their Board is a shambles (at any moment, someone might insist that Sanath has another farewell tour). I don't think any of them actually want to be skipper. They've hardly got a Darren Sammy out there just dying to do it.

 

[Migara]

BS, TBH. Dilshan was pushed to the top, if he gets it going will be a huge boost to the rest. But there are three more guys who average 50+ in that middle order. They should be able to shape the things back if it going pear.

 

[Jono]

Everyone knew what they were getting when Dilshan was made captain. He's not going to change the way he bats at his age, and nor should he.

 

[Migara]

Needs to go back down to 6.

Open with Tharanga and Paranavitana. KS at 3, MJ at 4 and TS at 5.

Ouch! this was after hammering "worlds best attack" to a hiding wasn't it?

 

[Spark]

Dilshan played like a dolt in this Test, yes, but it was highly likely that he wouldn't have gotten very far on this sort of pitch anyway. It's not like he particularly asked for the captaincy, he's been given a job and is doing it.

 

[slowfinger]

Meh, over rated if you ask me. His series vs England wasn't great on a swinging surface tbh.

 

[MW1304]

Meh, over rated if you ask me. His series vs England wasn't great on a swinging surface tbh.

The 190-odd at Lord's was absolutely superb, though, even if our bowling wasn't firing.

 

[Nomanculture]

the fact is if dilshan can get off to a flier, he can put the opposition on the back foot right from the start. plus it can be a boost to other batsmen in the middle order who seem to be in a bit of a shell these days.

but he obviously doesn't have the temperament or technique to conquer pitches like the one we saw in galle. most possibly we'll see some flat decks in the upcoming two matches where he'll excel and everyone will shut up.

 

[Jono]

Dileep Premachandran: Why does Raina fail? | Opinion | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

Good article on Raina, and India's dilemma with its young upcoming batsmen in general.