DrWolverine
International 12th Man
Who is Fred Spofforth?
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Wasim Akram Vs Viv Richards (odis)
- Thread starter Jumno
- Start date
sayon basak
International Captain
And Australian fast bowler from the 1880's.
OverratedSanity
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After 2015 he lost us a boatload of games. Agree that it rarely happened during his peak. But his decline soured me on him as a batsman a lot. I used to rank him top 5 or so, not sure I'd have him above Bevan now tbh. He's probably in that tier below the very best (Viv-Sachin-ABdV-Kohli) but I'd put 4-5 other batsmen ahead him too.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Tbf post 2015 he had quite silent CT and a decline not enough talk about; but yeah, I will probably still prefer him and Bevan over that 4-5 batsman group (assuming Abbas, Ponting, Jones, Lara and Rohit). Don't think it's wrong to say he is a tier above Gilly with the bat though.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Joel Garner
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah folks underestimate how much of a liability his lack of kicking into high gear in that phase was. Just getting a not out shouldn't give you brownie points.
OverratedSanity
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Which phase
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Folks will look at Gilly averaging 35 and Dhoni 50 and assume a huge gulf.
But Gilly started opening in the late 90s and his early innings cameos were quite devastating for those of us who remember it.
I think for what his role was, he did it excellently and set the tone for so many games.
And Gilly is pretty clearly a better keeper for me even in ODIs given the diversity of speedsters plus spin he had to handle.
And of course we can debate Gillys 149 vs Dhoni's 91* but Gilly also did well in the other WC finals. Three WC final performances is pretty special.
I find their batting fairly close but will go towards Dhoni since the closer role is quite a unique one.
But Gilly started opening in the late 90s and his early innings cameos were quite devastating for those of us who remember it.
I think for what his role was, he did it excellently and set the tone for so many games.
And Gilly is pretty clearly a better keeper for me even in ODIs given the diversity of speedsters plus spin he had to handle.
And of course we can debate Gillys 149 vs Dhoni's 91* but Gilly also did well in the other WC finals. Three WC final performances is pretty special.
I find their batting fairly close but will go towards Dhoni since the closer role is quite a unique one.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Mid 2010s
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
There is a gulf, big though not huge and not only for average. Babar averages 50+, don't think many will rate him over Sachin. But Gilchrist was neither as consistent as Dhoni nor was he that responsible. Dhoni is an equal top 2 in his role, by a fair bit of margin. I think there batting gap is atleast of a tier. Gilchrist did had 2 other pretty good WC knocks, but frankly it hardly mattered, Australia would had won without those (without argument for butterfly effect).
All I will say is I definitely believe if Dhoni and Gilchrist both played in a team together, Dhoni will be the one keeping in ODIs. His skill sets behind the stump was just special and really helpful.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Gilly didn't need to be consistent. It wasn't his role. He could have a quick 25-30 and that effectively would get the job done for Australia in the first five overs and it would be the same for an ATG ODI XI.
Dhoni's keeping was very India team specific.
DrWolverine
International 12th Man
Adam Gilchrist at the top gives you options at number 6 & 7 and one can choose an explosive finisher.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
No spinner.
Johan
International Regular
exactly
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Dhoni is literally the perfect no 6. Was more explosive than Bevan
DrWolverine
International 12th Man
My all time great team changes a lot especially in one day cricket but for now will give it a try
1. Sachin
2. Jayasuriya
3. Kohli
4. Viv
5. ABD
6. Dhoni
7. Klusener
8. Pollock
9. McGrath
10. Garner
11. Murali
1. Sachin
2. Jayasuriya
3. Kohli
4. Viv
5. ABD
6. Dhoni
7. Klusener
8. Pollock
9. McGrath
10. Garner
11. Murali
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Sure but Bevan was doing it in the 90s against higher quality attacks and in situations when he didn't need to blast it but preserve wickets when it seems hopeless. He was a different type of finisher.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
I mean, that does mean I will rate you significantly lower than a consistent batsman, like Dhoni. And like, if not Dhoni then who at 6 anyways?? Bevan? Hardly any different and you loose on captaincy. Also don't like lose cannon bowlers at all who may give more than 5-6 runs bye.
Gilchrist's batting was specific to a strong team. And like, Dhoni's keeping would had worked for most teams.