Was Dan Vettori better than the stats suggest

[TheJediBrah]

I forget how long he played for. If Vettori was English he'd have 10,000 Test runs, 600 wickets and GIMH, Adders and Molehill would be telling everyone what an ATG he is

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Shakib, Mushfiqur, and Tamim would be considered ATG if they were English.

 

[Bahnz]

Although I did wonder about whether he looked a better bowler in his early years, this actually doesn't quite stack up. I looked back at his record up until the end of 2006 and there was practically no difference in his record up to that point compared with the practically 8 more years he had in and out of the NZ team. I did think he looked a better bowler with his more side on action and marked drift and dip but it doesn't really work.

Vettori as a bowler was at his best from 97-00 (when he took 105 at 32). Not a massive difference from his overall career average you might say, but it's worth remembering that there was no Bangladesh to bully and Zimbabwe actually had a pretty solid looking batting lineup in the 90's. If you take zimbang out then his post 2000 bowling average is 42. Yeesh.

He developed a pretty serious back injury in the 00 Aus series iirc, remodeled his action and started turning the ball much less.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I forget how long he played for. If Vettori was English he'd have 10,000 Test runs, 600 wickets and GIMH, Adders and Molehill would be telling everyone what an ATG he is

Nonetheless, he still remains one of only 3 players with 4,000+ runs and 300+ wickets along with Kapil and Botham.

 

[Bahnz]

made an impact though. Got Flintoff caught behind despite missing the ball by a foot

I'm glad we have the DRS but I feel like the game's really lost something by no longer giving us the chance to experience little moments of comedy like this.

 

[Bahnz]

One of my favourite "Andrew Miller is a cartoon of an English cricket" writer moments was the time he insisted that Graeme Swann was the best test match #8 bat in the world because Vettori was SO good that he shouldn't be batting at 8.

 

[reyrey]

I sometimes look back to the World XI vs Australia game and wonder why Vettori was a pick for the World XI, but at the time it kinda made sense.

I lean more towards better than stats suggest.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I sometimes look back to the World XI vs Australia game and wonder why Vettori was a pick for the World XI, but at the time it kinda made sense.

I lean more towards better than stats suggest.

The test was in Sydney so they wanted 2 spinners (Aus played Warne & MacGill), at that time Vettori had a good record vs Aus*, and they would've wanted a NZ player in the match (initially McCullum was named in the squad, but Boucher played).

*v Australia pre World XI supertest

7/87, Auckland 2000
6/87, Perth 2001
5/62, Auckland 2000 (12 for match)
5/106, Christchurch 2005
5/138, Hobart 2001
5/152, Adelaide 2004

 

[reyrey]

The test was in Sydney so they wanted 2 spinners (Aus played Warne & MacGill), at that time Vettori had a good record vs Aus*, and they would've wanted a NZ player in the match (initially McCullum was named in the squad, but Boucher played).

*v Australia pre World XI supertest

7/87, Auckland 2000
6/87, Perth 2001
5/62, Auckland 2000 (12 for match)
5/106, Christchurch 2005
5/138, Hobart 2001
5/152, Adelaide 2004

Thanks for explaining. I'm glad it wasn't something I imagined!

 

[jcas0167]

Started his career in 1998 all the way through to the 2015 world cup final.

Was NZ's primary strike spin bowler.

Good character and had a good career.

How good do you feel he was and was be better than the stats suggest?

Made the test side in early 1997 fresh out of High School and with only a handful of of first class games. At that point he looked head and shoulders above our other spin options and having just turned 18 looked like he would be a world class operator. As others have mentioned he adjusted his style after back problems and became a very good limited overs bowler and effective batsman (in a 2008 test series with England the Guardian OBO commentary would half jokingly suggest NZ's best batsmen were at 7 and 8). Didn't fulfill that early promise of being a match winner in tests unfortunately.

 

[Starfighter]

Why is this thread still going when I gave the correct answer in the second post?

 

[andruid]

Why is this thread still going when I gave the correct answer in the second post?

Because we want an even more correct answer.

 

[Coronis]

Because we want an even more correct answer.

Correct

 

[number11]

Dan V was a very good cricketer. Squeezed every drop from his talent. Not great, prob a NZ great.

 

[thierry henry]

Dan V was a very good cricketer. Squeezed every drop from his talent. Not great, prob a NZ great.

Vettori was an international class spin bowler by his 18th birthday, having bowled spin for a couple of years. He was able to become an international class batsman on the fly with pretty much a homemade technique. I'm sure he worked hard, but I'd say he was prodigiously talented - a bloke isn't an overachiever because he wears glasses and runs unaesthetically.

 

[Migara]

Was the youngest ever spinner to reach 100 test wickets and had lovely loop and flight. Unfortunately had really bad back injuries and became more of a defensive stock bowler (economical) who could no longer take 4th innings wickets, but developed into the best no 8 of all time with the bat.

Debatable when Pollock and Mahmood around.

 

[Migara]

my greatest regret in cricket is not switching to left-arm orthodox. Did it for a bit in social cricket when I had a side strain and fmd it's bowling on easy mode. Jarrod Kimber had a great answer to the question of 'Why don't left arm spinners bowl doosras' which was just 'why would you bother when your stock ball brings every mode of dismissal into play by default?'.

Herath did bowl a carrom ball.

 

[Migara]

I get that entirely if you are bowling left-arm round to a right-hander. You only need one to slide on without turning and you can do that without one that goes the other way. I Guess there is more of an issue bowling left-arm over to a left hander. That's when you probably need a bit more variety. I am a very much out to pasture left arm wrist spinner.

Part time spin may work in other countries. In our neck of woods they are buffet bowlers. You need to be pretty good not to get hit.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Part time spin may work in other countries. In our neck of woods they are buffet bowlers. You need to be pretty good not to get hit.

Pretty sure it's the opposite

part-timers like Joe Root and Michael Clarke turn into front-liners when touring the subcontinent

Could be partly due to the pitches prepared for SENA teams when touring though

 

[Prince EWS]

Pretty sure it's the opposite

Yessss