Warne vs Gavaskar

[Burgey]

You meant for in a 3 match series except in which he scored 70 in the 2nd innings, was Given a laughably poor lbw which he would had survived in Pakistan and India still successfully completed the chase to draw the series??? RoW was also his very 3rd series and he did scored 50s in both the last two matches.

He averaged what, 17 in that series including that innings? Went like a busted in the ROW series too. The innings you highlight here are also-ran sort of innings. You know that.

You dig into his record it's got holes like Swiss cheese. Same as against the Windies. Fine player but had his weaknesses like everyone did except Border.

 

[Fanboy375]

Warne : Top 1-2 spinner in the last 80 years
Gavaskar : Top 1-2 opener in the last 80 years

Well Gavaskar as a batsman isn't top 2 or 3.Opening is a hard position but if he batted middle order it is debatable if he could ave more than 55-58

 

[capt_Luffy]

He averaged what, 17 in that series including that innings? Went like a busted in the ROW series too. The innings you highlight here are also-ran sort of innings. You know that.

You dig into his record it's got holes like Swiss cheese. Same as against the Windies. Fine player but had his weaknesses like everyone did except Border.

His "holes" vs WI are laughably gassed up here. He averaged 66 vs them over 28 matches in 5 Series..... Re Lillee and that Australian tour, never said it was good. But if I get one innings crucial for in 3 matches in an away tour to level the series, especially if the output was Really poor, I will take it.

 

[DrWolverine]

Well Gavaskar as a batsman isn't top 2 or 3.

Warne isn’t a top 2-3 bowler as well

 

[DrWolverine]

Re Lillee and that Australian tour, never said it was good.

Gavaskar faced Lillee in just 3 Tests

If Sunny can get centuries against Roberts, Holding, Marshall, Garner, Hadlee, Imran; I am sure he would have done well against Lillee too

 

[Qlder]

Gavaskar faced Lillee in just 3 Tests

If Sunny can get centuries against Roberts, Holding, Marshall, Garner, Hadlee, Imran; I am sure he would have done well against Lillee too

Okay, so 3 tests is too small a sample size when Lillee does well (21wkts @ 21.52 in those 3 tests), but Lillee's 3 tests in Pakistan is always considered a large enough sample when he didn't do well (as is his 1 test in Sri Lanka)

 

[capt_Luffy]

Gavaskar faced Lillee in just 3 Tests

If Sunny can get centuries against Roberts, Holding, Marshall, Garner, Hadlee, Imran; I am sure he would have done well against Lillee too

His 70 in the 3rd Test would had been all but a century if not for a Really laughable lbw decision.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Okay, so 3 tests is too small a sample size when Lillee does well (21wkts @ 21.52 in those 3 tests), but Lillee's 3 tests in Pakistan is always considered a large enough sample when he didn't do well

I don't think it was ever a question whether Lillee was Good in Australia or not....

 

[Qlder]

I don't think it was ever a question whether Lillee was Good in Australia or not....

Neither was my post. I was responding to someone dismissing Gavaskars record against Lillee because it was "only 3 tests", however Lillee's "only 3 tests" in Pakistan always count

 

[subshakerz]

His 70 in the 3rd Test would had been all but a century if not for a Really laughable lbw decision.

Dude stop promoting that innings. It's not that big a deal.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Neither was my post. I was responding to someone dismissing Gavaskars record against Lillee because it was only 3 tests, however Lillee's 3 tests in Pakistan always counts

I have two reasons really:
A) Gavaskar made multiple tours of Australia and was excellent against Thomson in the first and moreso against a mediocre Aussie line-up in the 2nd. Of his 3 series India drew 2 (should by all accounts won the 3rd) and lost the first very close down the wire. Also has runs against other Great pacers like Marshall and co. Lillee on the otherhand, only played one more game in SC, against a poor SL and wasn't even standout in that. Overall, doesn't really have much of a record in slow pitches.
B) While the 2 Series looks statistically comparable, Lillee had nothing Pakistan while Gavaskar had an innings crucial for the win in a 2nd innings chase to draw the series.

And I don't really pull down Lillee for his bad Pak tour as much as I do for not having a Good one in flat and slow SC ones.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Dude stop promoting that innings. It's not that big a deal.

It literally was a 3 match series..... A 70 in a successful run chase given a bad out in it, makes me think the Series wasn't necessarily much bad as well. Not Good, but not bad really too.

 

[Qlder]

It literally was a 3 match series..... A 70 in a successful run chase given a bad out in it, makes me think the Series wasn't necessarily much bad as well. Not Good, but not bad really too.

He averaged 19.66 and you say it was not a bad series. Before that last innings 70 he had only 48 runs @ 9.60

 

[Burgey]

Gavaskar faced Lillee in just 3 Tests

If Sunny can get centuries against Roberts, Holding, Marshall, Garner, Hadlee, Imran; I am sure he would have done well against Lillee too

And Lillee bowled in 3 tests in Pakistan.

If he could jag a stack of wickets against the Windies, England, India, Pakistan and NZ then no doubt he would have done well there too. Yet those three tests are relied on to mark him down. Which is fine, provided you mark other players down with holes in their records based on similar sample sizes.

 

[capt_Luffy]

He averaged 19.66 and you say it was not a bad series. Before that last innings 70 he had only 48 runs @ 9.60

Which is very poor. But I generally don't like going by averages in a sample as small as a 3 match series. Before that he was very poor, but 1 innings crucial for a win in a 3 match series is almost decent.

 

[Burgey]

Overall, doesn't really have much of a record in slow pitches.

You never saw him bowl in Melbourne, Sydney or Adelaide then. Not every slow pitch is in the SC.

 

[Qlder]

Which is very poor. But I generally don't like going by averages in a sample as small as a 3 innings series. Before that he was very poor, but 1 innings crucial for a win in a 3 match series is almost decent.

You mean 3 test series (he had 6 innings). So that means we should never hear from you about Lillee's average in Pakistan because the sample was too small as a 3 Test series. Excellent.

 

[capt_Luffy]

You mean 3 test series (he had 6 innings). So that means we should never hear from you about Lillee's average in Pakistan because the sample was too small as a 3 Test series. Excellent.

I never talked about it..... I talked about his lack of a good record in SC. Though I would had held his record had he taken like 15 wickets in that Pakistan tour (would had done so for Gavaskar as well had he scored a century alongside that 70 tbf). Also, Gavaskar's series vs Lillee was definitely much better than Lillee's Pakistan tour

 

[OverratedSanity]

Gavaskar had one bad series in a country when a particular bowler (Lilee) played, but toured several other times and did well (against some quality bowlers too like Thomson, Reid)

Lillee had one bad series in a country, with no qualifiers and that was the only time he toured.

Not really the same is it?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Also, saying the real issue with lillee's record is the 3 pakistan matches is missing the point. The real thing is that the guy played like 80% of his games in a couple of countries.

It's like if Gavaskar played 100 of his 120 odd tests in India and Pakistan, had one tour of WI where he averaged 3.5 with the bat and then never had to tour again. He'd be called a fraud (probably wrongly).