_00_deathscar
International Regular
A large portion of Waqar’s ten fers came against some seriously poor opposition. Bumrah has largely played most of his tests vs the top teams.
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Waqar vs Bumrah
- Thread starter Coronis
- Start date
ankitj
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
I dont disagree. If Bumrah continues at his current rate, he will be ahead of Waqar who to me is short of ATG status, regardless of tenfers.
kyear2
International Coach
This seems fair and reasonable.
34 tests is hilariously low and as someone referenced, if he suffered injuries like Waqar and Bishop, no one will remember this start. He needs more tests and similar results to quality for ATG rankings and this conversation.
So before @Coronis comes back for inconsistencies, as I said, Waqar is inarguably greater, there's no discussion. That's not how I select my teams though.
Patience and Accuracy+Gut
State Vice-Captain
Waqar by streets. Bumrah is way closer to Asif than he is to Waqar. Peak Waqar has to be the best bowler from any country. That on itself easily clears Bumrah. No way on earth is Bumrah anything close to being the bowler that Waqar was at his peak. No longevity points needed atm for Waqar to clear Bumrah.
do you have any evidence to support this or is this just an unsupported personal opinion. All the statistical evidence is that peak Bumrah is far ahead of peak Waqarz
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
I agree. Peak Waqar is slightly overrated here. He was awesome but bashed a lot of poor sides plus often got a lot of stick and then cleaned up tails which made his figures look better. However, he was a force of nature when he got going and Bumrah isnt that far ahead.
Peak Imran is still the greatest peak bowler ever IMO.
Patience and Accuracy+Gut
State Vice-Captain
Not anything close to Peak Waqar.
Bumrah 34 matches 155 wickets @ 20.19 44.5 SR, 10 5’fers 0 10’fers
Waqar 27 matches 154 wickets @ 18.35 35.8 SR, 16 5’fers 3 10’fers
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
I think we can have a reasonable disagreement over what the minimum requirement should be.
Personally think in the modern age 250 wickets is a bit too early. Like Cummins has 260 wickets and we may all put him easily in the top 15 pacers ever but he still has a few years to go and frankly can end up anywhere in the top ten to outside of it.
I have made this point before. Last few years does affect your legacy on final standing.
OverratedSanity
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10 of Waqar's 16 5fers and all 3 10fers were against NZ/SL/Zim who were all pretty poor batting lineups. Not that those numbers shouldn't count but it's not as mind-blowingly impressive as it seems.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
To be fair, he did well against WI home and away too but yes this point stands he faced a lot of medium opposition.
He also had an awesome spell in the 94 Karachi test against Australia.
Patience and Accuracy+Gut
State Vice-Captain
Bumrah hasn’t got any 10 fers against anyone anyway. Peak Waqar was a force of nature, the modern bias favours Bumrah but in fair judgment Peak Waqar was way better bowler than Peak Bumrah. The stats pretty much clears that despite some faults in Waqar’s record.
Arachnodouche
International Captain
I'd rather Bumrah finish with 200 wkts than having to watch him follow Waqar's second-half-of-career trajectory. Painful.
Daemon
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Bumrah averaged 9 against WI in that series despite not taking a 10-fer. He's never played a weak team other than those 2 games against them. He's had to play 7 games against Australia in that time and 83% of his games away from home. His opposition has just been tougher.
Their peaks are quite comparable imo.
Waqar obviously has the better record overall though, by quite a distance.
quality of opposition not comparable
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Waqar was still a fine Gillespie level test bowler in that second half and remained a worldclass ODI bowler.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Not entirely true. Waqar did do well against WI, England and a single Aus test in his peak, just that he feasted on soft opposition more.
you are debating two types of awesome between early Waqar and early Bumrah. The park / England series was one of the first I watched and it was prime time stuff. I’m just disabusing the notion that the stats suggest Waqar was meaningfully better at peak which he wasn’t. When you look at the context of Bumrahs stats they are pretty wild
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Sure and I prefer Bumrah's too since he faced more quality overall in general. But it wasn't like Waqar didn't do well against reasonably good lineups.