Waqar sacked

[yohanna]

Seeing as there were no charges brought or anything, maybe he should've done?

Well he did back down later on didn't he? And it was Shaharyar Khan, the Pakistani manager, that had threatened the Australian team of lawsuits that eventually quitened the Aussies.

I think a "big Deal" is being made of that whole issue, we have captains today whose behaviour on and off the field is far worse than that of Rashid.

Rashid would be a stop-gap captain for a year or so, i expect Youhanna to be the next captain as he is now the vice captain of the team.As for Younis Khan, his performance has been a dissapointment lately and the only reason as to why he warrant a place in Pak side is because there aren't many quality batsmen comming up from Pakistan these days.Considering Younis's performance with the bat and his lack of experiance, i don't think he should be a candidate for captaincy!

 

[krkode]

Yes! Yohanna was one I forgot about earlier. Ok, Rashid as a stop-gap captain seems reasonable seeing that he's captained Pakistan before.

 

[warrioryohannan]

That complies with my other theory that Real captains are a rare breed, and not every man can be a captain. Of course, they technically can be a captain if they are appointed by their respective boards, but I won't look on them as the best choice...:saint:

Ideal captain hardly exists in reality,therefore you shouldn't use the world "real Captain",otherwise all current captains would become" unreal".Imran Khan,Chappel,Steven Waugh and Llyod were ideal captain, but i can't think of many current captain that will fit your description.As i have said earlier everyone has his share of complains and accusations, Naseer has been criticized for complaining all the time, Ganguly has been accused of indecency in the past, Waqar has been accused of tampering the ball and Ponting has been accused of sledging as well.

And i would definately prefer a player for captaincy who has been unprovingly accused of sledging, rather than someone who has been accused of match fixing!!

 

[krkode]

Now, "real captain" isn't a word to be taken literally. By real, I mean good. One who can lead by example. One who can be decent to the opposition, his teammates, the crowd, the umpires, and all the rest.

As you said, Imran, Chappel, Waugh and Lloyd were good captains, the likes of which the world has not seen the last of. Maybe their equals don't exist today, but there are people who can be as good or better captains than those great men mentioned above.

I use "ideal" and "real" only to signify, a "good captain." And people have different definitions of good captains and mine is different from your's. :P

And i would definately prefer a player for captaincy who has been unprovingly accused of sledging, rather than someone who has been accused of match fixing!!

weren't Akram's match fixing accusations also unproved? I would rather chose a better captain who has been accused of Match fixing than a not-so-good captain who has been accused of sledging, if both accusations were not proved.

 

[warrioryohannan]

Now, "real captain" isn't a word to be taken literally. By real, I mean good. One who can lead by example. One who can be decent to the opposition, his teammates, the crowd, the umpires, and all the rest.]

Yeah i know what you mean by real, but i have given you numerous examples of current captains, some of them have been indecent to the crowd, while others have been indecent to their own team mates and to the opposition.So where are the good captains???



[/QUOTE] weren't Akram's match fixing accusations also unproved? I would rather chose a better captain who has been accused of Match fixing than a not-so-good captain who has been accused of sledging, if both accusations were not proved. [/QUOTE]

First of all how can you say that Rashid is a "not a good captain"??? Rashid didn't get many test matches to skip, only time will tell as to whether Rashid is good or not.

As for Akram's involvement with bookies,Akram wasnever found totally inocent. Akram was fined heavily by the court and the court ordered the PCB NOT to appoint Akram the captain again!!! You may prefer Akram as a captain but iwould certainly like to follow the ruling by the court of Law!!

 

[Anil]

Waqar, Inzi, Akram, Akhtar, Anwar, Saqlain...all gone....Why the hell did they axe Saqlain? Latif is the latest winner in the Pak captains' Musical Chair competition. Let's see how long he lasts. Meanwhile the coaches' Musical Chair competition throws up another new winner, Miandad.

 

[Choora]

Was Saqlain available for selection? i thought he was busy with an English county.Lateef has been appointed for a year, don't think he should be playing for Pak for morethan a year anyway!

 

[krkode]

So where are the good captains???

Maybe there aren't any good captains in today's cricket?

First of all how can you say that Rashid is a "not a good captain"?

"not-so-good" compared only to Akram. It's all a relative thing. Because, as I see it, a captain needs to lead by example, and he needs to have a commanding presence on the field. Comparing Akram's to Latif's stats, I think it's quite obvious who has been a better leader by example over the years.

court ordered the PCB NOT to appoint Akram the captain again!!!

I read somewhere that it was only advice. Not an order. Maybe that somewhere was wrong. Anyway, I'm not saying Akram should be captain, anymore. I am saying he was a better captain than Latif was.

 

[warrioryohannan]

Maybe there aren't any good captains in today's cricket?

Thats what my point has been all along!

[/QUOTE]
"not-so-good" compared only to Akram. It's all a relative thing. Because, as I see it, a captain needs to lead by example, and he needs to have a commanding presence on the field. Comparing Akram's to Latif's stats, I think it's quite obvious who has been a better leader by example over the years.[/QUOTE]

A captain does need to lead by example, but that doesn't necessarily means that the best player of the team would be the best captain.We have the example of Sachin tendulkar who wasn't very successful with captaincy.The best captain in the game today happens to be Flemming and Naseer Hussain, both of them aren't the best player of the team!!
And what am one going to look at Akrams and Lateef's stats for?
Akram never kept wkts while Lateef was never required to bowl.Indeed Waseem Akram has been a more sucessful player than Lateef but if thats how one is going to pick skipper then...

Axe Ganguly and bring on Sachin, axe Naseer (from test) and bring on Vaughan.Axe Flemming and bring on Bond.


[/QUOTE]
I read somewhere that it was only advice. Not an order. Maybe that somewhere was wrong. Anyway, I'm not saying Akram should be captain, anymore. I am saying he was a better captain than Latif was. [/QUOTE]

Yes technically it was an "advice" BUT it wasn't an advice of an individual but of a judge of a court.The advice was good enough to restrict the PCB from naming Akram as captain all along and even for the WC (when PCB were unhappy with Waqar's captaincy), as by going against the advice of the judge the PCB would have landed itself in trouble with the ICC.

Akram was a good captain but i don't see how he can be compared with Rashid as a captain, thats because Rashid was hardly played enough test matches as a captain(just three really)

 

[krkode]

Nor did I say lead by example meant being the best player.

Lead by example calls for a commanding stance on the field. Be one of the best of what you do. Fleming produced classic knocks this world cup. Nasser Hussain is a great test captain, because he's a great test batsman, and Ganguly is a great captain because he's a great batsman.

Somebody to share in the laurels of victory.

And of course, needs to have some experience too, but I'm not saying Latif doesn't have experience.

I don't see what seems to be the big deal here. Just because I don't look upon Rashid Latif as being the best choice for the Pakistani captaincy you start getting on my posts. I'm not even a player on that team, and who captains Pakistan is little business of mine. I can only comment. And you find it fit to comment on what I say :rolleyes:

As someone once said, give your opinions on cricket and not your opinions on opinions on cricket. :P

I find this argument not worth talking about anymore.:saint:

 

[warrioryohannan]

Ganguly isn't a great TEST batsmen, and though Flemming did perform remarkably in WC , he still isn't one of the best batsman in the game today.And as you said that a captain should be the "best of what he should do" i do believe Lateef is the best keeper in the Pak team!!


Yeah the argument is going nowhere, lets just agree to disagree
:saint:

 

[krkode]

Well test averages of 40+ are kinda rare nowadays, so Ganguly is what I'd call an okay test batsman :P

He used to average in the 50s, but it has consistently been dropping in recent times...:wow:

 

[warrioryohannan]

Well test averages of 40+ are kinda rare nowadays, so he's what we'd call an okay batsman :P

His performance over the period of last two years in TEST matches haven't been great, he has been struggling with the bat on most away tests matches lately.Infact there was a thread on cricketweb on Ganguly as a test batsmen, you won't find many people agreeing with ur observation on Ganguly !

Above 40+ aver are rare these days?? Maybe we live in different world

:P

 

[krkode]

Well, let's see how many batsman can keep an average of above 40 after playing 70 odd test matches like he has.

Let's go country by country, and please correct me if I'm mistaken. We're only looking at batsman who have played around as many matches as Ganguly has, or about 50 matches + (and averages 40+)

England: I think only Hussain averages 40+
Pakistan: Inzamam, Anwar
India: Tendulkar, Dravid
Sri Lanka: Jayasurya, Jayawardena
Austrlia: Hayden, Gilchrist, Ponting, Langer, Waugh
New Zealand: uh?
South Africa: Kirsten, Gibbs
Zimbabwe: A Flower
West Indies: Lara

It looks like there's about 16 players...If I missed some, let's say there are about 20-25 players. I wouldn't think being 1 out of 20 is THAT bad...it's recognizable...:saint:

 

[Rik]

For England

Hussain averages 37...

Alec Stewart averages 39.99 from 122 Tests...

Graham Thorpe averages 41.87 from 77 Tests

For WIndies

Chanderpaul averages 44.29 from 63 Tests

You also have to take into account the pitches Ganguly usually plays on in India which are usually dusty turners with no life for the faster bowlers he has trouble with most of the time. When he comes across green pitches like the ones in NZ or bouncy ones like the ones in Australia, he usually struggles. This is because he is used to batting on low slow wickets...

 

[krkode]

So there, Ganguly is a good batsman on slower wickets (I'd say one of the best) and the rest have their own speciality

Just because he has a preference doesn't mean he's not good :P

 

[Rik]

So there, Ganguly is a good batsman on slower wickets (I'd say one of the best) and the rest have their own speciality

Just because he has a preference doesn't mean he's not good :P

When you consider that most batsmen have to play on surfices with some life in them as well as some bounce, then it doesn't look that great and it explains why he fails abroad so often.

 

[luckyeddie]

How many of the current test sides would Ganguly fail to get in on playing ability alone?

I reckon Australia - full stop.

 

[Rik]

How many of the current test sides would Ganguly fail to get in on playing ability alone?

I reckon Australia - full stop.

Add South Africa to that, although he would be picked for his colour rather than his ability.

 

[marc71178]

Ganguly would make the SA middle order on merit.