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Wales
- Thread starter Jack1
- Start date
TheJediBrah
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Or "England, Wales, South Africa, New Zealand, Zimbabwe and West Indies"
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Oh here is TJB with his refreshing and innovative brand of humour
TheJediBrah
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I'll start making my own jokes when England start making their own players
You have to start somewhere. I find it unfair they don't credit Wales at all. We have ECB and England used, yet they use players from Wales. I'm pretty sure for a kid growing up in Wales, and all cricketers in Wales, that it would be much nicer to have their own team - even if at first they weren't competitive for a long time.
As I mentioned they aren't even credited as a country, yet England use their players - whether they admit it or not, it must be frustrating as a Welshman, or woman, having to basically support "England" by default if you want to follow a country. I look at scorecards sometimes for small nations on Cricinfo. Sometimes you get very interesting games, like the Belgium-Malta penalty runs incident game. I don't think it necessarily matters what level a country is, or what level they get to. Just that they can compete in international cricket at all is good.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
That's all very fair. You probably know that, technically, the ECB stands for the England and Wales Cricket Board and yet, for some reason, 'and Wales' is nearly always ignored. I vaguely remember that when Robert Croft played for England, he viewed the side as a cricketing version of the British Lions as he didn't like representing England. And I don't really know why Scotland aren't part of this, although they did use to have their own side who sometimes made it to the world cup, so maybe that's why.
It would be interesting to ask some of the Welsh cricketers. It may be that the better ones prefer being subsumed into the England side as that provides the opportunity to play at the highest level, whereas the less good Welsh players might prefer to have their own international team playing at a much lower level. But obviously I'm guessing now.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
fwiw here are the eleven Welsh players who have represented England during my life-time: Allan Jones, Hugh Morris, Tony Lewis, Matthew Maynard, Geraint Jones, Robert Croft, Greg Thomas, Simon Jones, Pat Pocock, Jeff Jones and Steve Watkin.
I had to look that up, and I had never realised that Pocock was Welsh. I wonder who are the better Welsh cricketers currently playing professionally.
I had to look that up, and I had never realised that Pocock was Welsh. I wonder who are the better Welsh cricketers currently playing professionally.
Is Pocock Welsh? I know he was born there, and Wikipedia refers to him as Welsh, but on those grounds you'd say Maynard was English.
Apparently by the age of 6 Pocock had moved to Surrey (Merton CC's webpages say he was scoring for them at that age), so he could well regard himself as English.
Apparently by the age of 6 Pocock had moved to Surrey (Merton CC's webpages say he was scoring for them at that age), so he could well regard himself as English.
Lillian Thomson
Hall of Fame Member
Pocock had (presumably still has) a very posh London accent (if there can be such a thing).
Wales did play as a first class cricket team for 16 matches between 1923-1930.
Usually made up of the Glamorgan side of the day with the odd amateur, as well as SF Barnes who played well into his 50s, he actually took 49 first-class wickets for Wales, ( including 12-118) against WI.
They played against, Ireland (3), MCC (6), & against the following teams once, Scotland, Minor Counties, Lanc, Sussex, 1927 NZ, 1928 WI & 1929 SA tourists.
A couple of matches at Colywn Bay, many at Lords, the others at varied locations.
Usually made up of the Glamorgan side of the day with the odd amateur, as well as SF Barnes who played well into his 50s, he actually took 49 first-class wickets for Wales, ( including 12-118) against WI.
They played against, Ireland (3), MCC (6), & against the following teams once, Scotland, Minor Counties, Lanc, Sussex, 1927 NZ, 1928 WI & 1929 SA tourists.
A couple of matches at Colywn Bay, many at Lords, the others at varied locations.
nick-o
State 12th Man
I don't know the history of why Glamorgan in cricket and Swansea, Cardiff, Wrexham and Newport in football ended up playing in the respective English competitions back in Victorian times or whenever it was, whereas their Scottish equivalents didn't. But I think their presence is possibly the only reason there is anything like a grassroots base for those sports in Wales.
What would happen to Glamorgan if Wales was split off from the ECB? Would we still be part of the county championship? Or would we become the equivalent of Scotland and Ireland?
The danger is that anyone of the level to play first-class cricket would move to an English county, and interest in the sport would dwindle. Same I think for the football teams -- if Swansea and Cardiff were confined to playing in a Welsh league instead of challenging for a place in the Premiership, the money would disappear, the base would dwindle.
I grew up in sight of St Helens in Swansea, which was one of Glamorgan's bases. As a kid, I had a season ticket and went to every match there -- we're talking late 60s, early 70s here. Swansea had half a dozen county matches every year; Sunday league; overseas teams would come as part of their tours; we hosted one of the very first ODIs (against NZ; in maybe 71? 72?). If I hadn't had that exposure as a kid, I would never have got into watching cricket.
So although I'd feel pride in a Welsh team, I don't think it would be good for cricket in Wales and on balance I don't want to see it happen.
What would happen to Glamorgan if Wales was split off from the ECB? Would we still be part of the county championship? Or would we become the equivalent of Scotland and Ireland?
The danger is that anyone of the level to play first-class cricket would move to an English county, and interest in the sport would dwindle. Same I think for the football teams -- if Swansea and Cardiff were confined to playing in a Welsh league instead of challenging for a place in the Premiership, the money would disappear, the base would dwindle.
I grew up in sight of St Helens in Swansea, which was one of Glamorgan's bases. As a kid, I had a season ticket and went to every match there -- we're talking late 60s, early 70s here. Swansea had half a dozen county matches every year; Sunday league; overseas teams would come as part of their tours; we hosted one of the very first ODIs (against NZ; in maybe 71? 72?). If I hadn't had that exposure as a kid, I would never have got into watching cricket.
So although I'd feel pride in a Welsh team, I don't think it would be good for cricket in Wales and on balance I don't want to see it happen.
It would be unfair to cut Glamorgan off. I wouldn't suggest that.
Wales also played in the 1979 ICC Trophy, standing in for Gibraltar who withdrew because their best players were unavailable.
If the USA-Netherlands game in that event hadn't been rained off, and USA had won it, Sri Lanka would have been eliminated due to forfeiting their match against Israel, and so would not have qualified for the 1979 World Cup.
If the USA-Netherlands game in that event hadn't been rained off, and USA had won it, Sri Lanka would have been eliminated due to forfeiting their match against Israel, and so would not have qualified for the 1979 World Cup.
Aritro
International Regular
If they're going to formally change the name, they ought to change the badge as well to add a Welsh element.
The leek would probably be easier to incorporate into it than the dragon. Three lions and a dragon is a bit much unless they change the design and configuration fairly radically.
The leek would probably be easier to incorporate into it than the dragon. Three lions and a dragon is a bit much unless they change the design and configuration fairly radically.
Aritro
International Regular
FWIW, I remember some Welsh immigrants on a Melbourne Victory (A-League football club) forum wildly supporting Australia in the Ashes. They were fairly hardened England-hating Welsh nationalists and at least one of them was a native Welsh speaker. When I pointed out the England & Wales aspect, I was tartly referred to the name on the scorecard and the three lions on the cap.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
Hmmm.
Obviously has Welsh ancestry, but was born in PNG and grew up in Queensland, didn't he?
He's Welsh in the same way DR Jardine was Scottish.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Yes he was. Both of Jones' parents were Welsh, so maybe that's how he saw himself. I suppose the rugby internationals on the telly would have been the litmus test.