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Viv Richards vs Adam Gilchrist

Viv vs Gilly

  • Total voters
    29
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
subshakerz said:
Yeah now you are being disingenuous again.

Whenever you made it a point to bring up ATG XIs to point out someone who is or is not there, you always bring up Cricinfo and Wisden as your authoritative XIs.

You know for a fact that Gilly is in the Cricinfo XI. So why do you need to just completely ignore that now when it doesn't suit your argument? Very shady.
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Am I being disingenuous or did you not understand what I said?

Yes there are two authoritative XIs, Wisden's and Cricinfo's.

I didn't say he made neither, I said he didn't make both.

He made the Cricinfo's effort, but not Wisden's.

So it's difficult to say that he's an automatic for any AT XI, when of the two important ones released, he only made one.

It's not shady, but I understand how you love to cast aspersions.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
smash84 said:
So except the part in bolded, you agree with everything else?

Also, why is the bolded part not true? There is a set batsman who's been around for 30 overs, of course the opposing captain will be forced to change his plans. His plans aren't working that's why the batsman is sticking around.

Also, it isn't really a given that attacking batsmen can slow down when needed. In fact one of the criticisms against Viv was that he would often get bored and hit out. So it really isn't easy for attacking batsmen to play a blockathon. In fact batsmen like misbah and dravid could accelerate when needed. So that's that
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The only thing in the original quoted post was that great batsmen can do both, and there were multiple innings referenced in this thread of Viv batting slowly. It's not as hard as asking Sutcliffe or Boycott to bat quickly.

Batting slowly doesn't require more skill, the exact opposite is true.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
kyear2 said:
The community here has been apparently and steadily moving towards a consensus of Marshall, McGrath and Hadlee and it's honestly growing on me.

Was listening to a conversation of some former test bowlers and even when the topic of an all time attack came up no one mentioned reverse. And all of them revered Sir Richard.
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My philosophy for an ATG XI is I want an XI that can cover all contingencies. And I think you need an old ball specialist. You cant just have three new ball bowlers. Don't see the point of Hadlee not taking the new ball. It sounds better on paper than in reality.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
subshakerz said:
My philosophy for an ATG XI is I want an XI that can cover all contingencies. And I think you need an old ball specialist. You cant just have three new ball bowlers. Don't see the point of Hadlee not taking the new ball. It sounds better on paper than in reality.
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As I said, I'm conflicted.

But Sir Richard, as did Marshall, McGrath and Sobers all bowled overs with the old ball, and were all successful.

Hadlee in particular with the support he had must have bowled spell in the dog overs. And I've seen both Maco and Pigeon so it as well.

In the end it's basically talking about 15 overs or less for the end opposite Warne from over 50 / 60 to 80. Is that worth dropping Hadlee for? Sobers and Hadlee can handle those and keep it right. Of it's spinning, definitely Sobers and Warne can give it a go.

But as I said, conflicted.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
kyear2 said:
As I said, I'm conflicted.

But Sir Richard, as did Marshall, McGrath and Sobers all bowled overs with the old ball, and were all successful.

Hadlee in particular with the support he had must have bowled spell in the dog overs. And I've seen both Maco and Pigeon so it as well.

In the end it's basically talking about 15 overs or less for the end opposite Warne from over 50 / 60 to 80. Is that worth dropping Hadlee for? Sobers and Hadlee can handle those and keep it right. Of it's spinning, definitely Sobers and Warne can give it a go.

But as I said, conflicted.
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Sure we are talking ATG bowlers so they will give quality returns regardless. The point is maximizing your attack to cover all the bases. Similar to how Starc, Hazelwood and Cummins complement each other in varied ways. I don't see as much value with Hadlee if he doesn't have the red cherry where he did most damage and him doing dog overs. His role overlaps too much with McGrath and Marshall.

If it's a flat SC pitch or a worn out SENA wicket, I would prefer a reverser like Steyn/Imran/Wasim. McGrath or even Hadlee I see more likely neutralised here.

In Wasims case he has the left arm angle. In Imran's case he has natural inswing to complement outswing of Marshall and McGrath/Hadlee. Both can also keep it tight. Steyn being a liability without the red cherry may even share the new ball with McGrath and I put Marshall as third seamer (gasp).
 
akilana

akilana

International 12th Man
subshakerz said:
Sure we are talking ATG bowlers so they will give quality returns regardless. The point is maximizing your attack to cover all the bases. Similar to how Starc, Hazelwood and Cummins complement each other in varied ways. I don't see as much value with Hadlee if he doesn't have the red cherry where he did most damage and him doing dog overs. His role overlaps too much with McGrath and Marshall.

If it's a flat SC pitch or a worn out SENA wicket, I would prefer a reverser like Steyn/Imran/Wasim. McGrath or even Hadlee I see more likely neutralised here.

In Wasims case he has the left arm angle. In Imran's case he has natural inswing to complement outswing of Marshall and McGrath/Hadlee. Both can also keep it tight. Steyn being a liability without the red cherry may even share the new ball with McGrath and I put Marshall as third seamer (gasp).
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so why don't you pick Sehwag as one of the openers for you XI given how destructive he's on flat pitches?
 
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