Virat Kohli, the greatest ODI bat ever?

[HouHsiaoHsien]

No.. Kohli was in top form and a sensational batsman already, his stats remains similar until now ( after era adjustment ).
While Sachin was declining and was not even good to be included in the team at the time of retirement.

So you’re telling me Kohli circa 2012 was the same as Kohli of 2016-19. Ok

 

[TheJediBrah]

If you sent Kohli back in time to play Sachin's career I don't think he ends up with as good a record as Sachin

 

[Adorable Asshole]

If you sent Kohli back in time to play Sachin's career I don't think he ends up with as good a record as Sachin

Yeah his record would be better

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

If India make the final and he ponies up even a moderate score you'd have to put him above Chokedulkar. Man was a walking wicket when it mattered most.

I dont remember any such moment..
2003 WC was an impossible Task, 2011 he already past his prime and was ordinary.

Sachin played so many great knocks under huge pressure, anyone who says otherwise is suffering from memory issues.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I dont remember any such moment..
2003 WC was an impossible Task, 2011 he already past his prime and was ordinary.

Sachin played so many great knocks under huge pressure, anyone who says otherwise is suffering from memory issues.

come on can't just disqualify the 2003 final like that lol

 

[Burgey]

Yeah, I don't think "Things were tough, he wasn't up to it but he's the greatest ever because he just is" is such a compelling argument tbh.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

FTR - Kohli has almost twice as many runs in WC finals as Sachin despite playing half as many games.

FTR
Sachin Broke all the ODI batting records when he was in his 20s, and eventually bettered previous records by 200 or 300%.
Kohli already 35 and no major records so far.

Unlike Kohli, Sachin was relevant in many world cups.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

come on can't just disqualify the 2003 final like that lol

Who'd have won that game?
Its impossible to chase down that big target against world's best attack, when you are the only established match winner in the team.
He would have played differently ( with more care ) if there was match winners like Yuvi or Dhoni to support.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Who'd have won that game?
Its impossible to chase down that big target against world's best attack, when you are the only established match winner in the team.
He would have played differently ( with more care ) if there was match winners like Yuvi or Dhoni to support.

Lol. He was there and still Tendulkar choked.

 

[Burgey]

FTR
Sachin Broke all the ODI batting records when he was in his 20s, and eventually bettered previous records by 200 or 300%.
Kohli already 35 and no major records so far.

Unlike Kohli, Sachin was relevant in many world cups.

That's what happens when you play more games than anyone else ffs, most of them meaningless. Racking up a winning score in the 1997 Singer Who Gives a **** Cup in Sharjah means nothing in the scheme of things. He took the gas when it mattered most in ODIs.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I like that we can now say that failures don't count if the team loses by a lot because "they wouldn't have won anyway"

 

[R!TTER]

come on can't just disqualify the 2003 final like that lol

And is that because Oz batted first on a belter & Zaheer blew the game in the first over itself? Do you wanna see how other "superstars" fared in second innings in KO chases in WC

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team Australia or India

Trophy World Cup

Match type tournament finals or tournament cons. finals or tournament semi-finals or tournament quarter-finals

Innings in match 2nd innings

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 50

Ordered by batting average (descending)

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
ME Waugh (AUS)	1996-1999	2	2	1	147	110	147.00	164	89.63	1	0	0	10	2
SPD Smith (AUS)	2015-2015	2	2	1	121	65	121.00	140	86.42	0	2	0	10	0
Yuvraj Singh (IND)	2003-2011	3	3	2	102	57*	102.00	123	82.92	0	1	0	11	0
G Gambhir (IND)	2011-2011	2	2	0	147	97	73.50	186	79.03	0	2	0	11	0
MJ Clarke (AUS)	2007-2015	3	3	1	142	74	71.00	169	84.02	0	2	0	18	1
MS Dhoni (IND)	2011-2019	4	4	1	213	91*	71.00	224	95.08	0	3	0	13	5
SR Watson (AUS)	2007-2015	3	2	2	66	64*	-	71	92.95	0	1	0	7	1
Yashpal Sharma (IND)	1983-1983	1	1	0	61	61	61.00	115	53.04	0	1	0	3	2
SR Waugh (AUS)	1996-1999	2	1	1	59	59*	-	68	86.76	0	1	0	5	0
KD Walters (AUS)	1975-1975	2	2	1	55	35	55.00	94	58.51	0	0	0	7	0
SM Patil (IND)	1983-1983	1	1	1	51	51*	-	32	159.37	0	1	0	8	0
RA Jadeja (IND)	2015-2019	2	2	0	93	77	46.50	76	122.36	0	1	0	6	4
SR Tendulkar (IND)	1996-2011	4	4	0	140	65	35.00	175	80.00	0	2	0	19	0
DA Warner (AUS)	2015-2015	2	2	0	69	45	34.50	69	100.00	0	0	0	10	0
V Sehwag (IND)	2003-2011	3	3	0	97	82	32.33	105	92.38	0	1	1	12	3
M Azharuddin (IND)	1987-1996	2	2	0	64	64	32.00	80	80.00	0	1	1	7	0
IM Chappell (AUS)	1975-1975	2	2	0	64	62	32.00	112	57.14	0	1	0	6	0
AC Gilchrist (AUS)	1999-2007	2	2	0	55	54	27.50	41	134.14	0	1	0	8	1
RT Ponting (AUS)	1996-2007	3	3	0	77	31	25.66	95	81.05	0	0	0	12	0
K Srikkanth (IND)	1983-1987	2	2	0	50	31	25.00	99	50.50	0	0	0	7	0
V Kohli (IND)	2011-2019	4	4	0	61	35	15.25	101	60.39	0	0	0	5	0

Basically no one has more than one great/ATG innings of note & those who have more than one fifty, like Smith or Clarke, faced below bar totals while chasing!

 

[R!TTER]

I like that we can now say that failures don't count if the team loses by a lot because "they wouldn't have won anyway"

It was a failure only because you don't see the context - the game was already lost in the first innings! Our 0.001% chance of winning was if we got off to a flyer, like vs Pak, with both openers smashing it to all corners. You could argue he should've let Sehwag take the strike first, like most of the WC, but that he did take it first also proves that he was up for the task not hiding behind a younger player like a certain someone in 2015 SF or 2019 one! You can blame him for the 96 semis loss but not this one.

 

[Burgey]

And is that because Oz batted first on a belter & Zaheer blew the game in the first over itself? Do you wanna see how other "superstars" fared in second innings in KO chases in WC

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team Australia or India

Trophy World Cup

Match type tournament finals or tournament cons. finals or tournament semi-finals or tournament quarter-finals

Innings in match 2nd innings

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 50

Ordered by batting average (descending)

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Showing 1 - 21 of 21

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
ME Waugh (AUS)	1996-1999	2	2	1	147	110	147.00	164	89.63	1	0	0	10	2
SPD Smith (AUS)	2015-2015	2	2	1	121	65	121.00	140	86.42	0	2	0	10	0
Yuvraj Singh (IND)	2003-2011	3	3	2	102	57*	102.00	123	82.92	0	1	0	11	0
G Gambhir (IND)	2011-2011	2	2	0	147	97	73.50	186	79.03	0	2	0	11	0
MJ Clarke (AUS)	2007-2015	3	3	1	142	74	71.00	169	84.02	0	2	0	18	1
MS Dhoni (IND)	2011-2019	4	4	1	213	91*	71.00	224	95.08	0	3	0	13	5
SR Watson (AUS)	2007-2015	3	2	2	66	64*	-	71	92.95	0	1	0	7	1
Yashpal Sharma (IND)	1983-1983	1	1	0	61	61	61.00	115	53.04	0	1	0	3	2
SR Waugh (AUS)	1996-1999	2	1	1	59	59*	-	68	86.76	0	1	0	5	0
KD Walters (AUS)	1975-1975	2	2	1	55	35	55.00	94	58.51	0	0	0	7	0
SM Patil (IND)	1983-1983	1	1	1	51	51*	-	32	159.37	0	1	0	8	0
RA Jadeja (IND)	2015-2019	2	2	0	93	77	46.50	76	122.36	0	1	0	6	4
SR Tendulkar (IND)	1996-2011	4	4	0	140	65	35.00	175	80.00	0	2	0	19	0
DA Warner (AUS)	2015-2015	2	2	0	69	45	34.50	69	100.00	0	0	0	10	0
V Sehwag (IND)	2003-2011	3	3	0	97	82	32.33	105	92.38	0	1	1	12	3
M Azharuddin (IND)	1987-1996	2	2	0	64	64	32.00	80	80.00	0	1	1	7	0
IM Chappell (AUS)	1975-1975	2	2	0	64	62	32.00	112	57.14	0	1	0	6	0
AC Gilchrist (AUS)	1999-2007	2	2	0	55	54	27.50	41	134.14	0	1	0	8	1
RT Ponting (AUS)	1996-2007	3	3	0	77	31	25.66	95	81.05	0	0	0	12	0
K Srikkanth (IND)	1983-1987	2	2	0	50	31	25.00	99	50.50	0	0	0	7	0
V Kohli (IND)	2011-2019	4	4	0	61	35	15.25	101	60.39	0	0	0	5	0

Basically no one has more than one great/ATG innings of note & those who have more than one fifty, like Smith or Clarke, faced below bar totals while chasing!

So it's official, S Waugh > Chokedulkar in ODIs as well as tests.

Interesting.

Very, very interesting.

 

[Burgey]

You can blame him for the 96 semis loss but not this one

You don't need to blame him for the loss for him to have under-performed/ failed in it. He was one of 11 Indians in that team who were outclassed by a better side filled with 11 better players. But if you're going to argue someone is the GOAT ODI player then the fact he crumbled like a Sao in a blender in his two WC finals is an important factor to take into account.

It's why he should never be picked in AT ODI teams. He made runs when it was easy and did nothing when it mattered most on the biggest of all stages. If you're picking a team to play a WC final then the Richards, Gilchrist, Dhoni, Ponting fmd even Gambhir and Boonie are all miles ahead of him. But if you want someone to win a best of five JAMODI series for you, he's probably your guy.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Lol. He was there and still Tendulkar choked.

Sehwag and Yuvi were new, not established match winners or reliable. Sachin was the only hope.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

That's what happens when you play more games than anyone else ffs, most of them meaningless. Racking up a winning score in the 1997 Singer Who Gives a **** Cup in Sharjah means nothing in the scheme of things. He took the gas when it mattered most in ODIs.

Its as meaningless as Kohli's runs in WC finals.

 

[Burgey]

Kohli hasn't made a big score in a WC final, or a semi final really, come to that. Yet.

If he makes a big score in the final of this tourney then for mine he becomes at the very least in the argument as the greatest ODI player of all time, along with Richards. Saying Tendulkar isn't the greatest ODI player of all time isn't like killing Bambi ffs. He's certainly the most prolific though, just like Anderson is the most prolific test seam bowler but isn't the greatest at that discipline.

 

[Burgey]

Sehwag and Yuvi were new, not established match winners or reliable. Sachin was the only hope.

And he flopped.

F L O P P E D
L
O
P
P
E
D

Failed miserably.

Same in 2011. They won despite him, not because of him.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

You don't need to blame him for the loss for him to have under-performed/ failed in it. He was one of 11 Indians in that team who were outclassed by a better side filled with 11 better players. But if you're going to argue someone is the GOAT ODI player then the fact he crumbled like a Sao in a blender in his two WC finals is an important factor to take into account.

It's why he should never be picked in AT ODI teams. He made runs when it was easy and did nothing when it mattered most on the biggest of all stages. If you're picking a team to play a WC final then the Richards, Gilchrist, Dhoni, Ponting fmd even Gambhir and Boonie are all miles ahead of him. But if you want someone to win a best of five JAMODI series for you, he's probably your guy.

No one is arguing Sachin was Still the GOAT Batsman in 2011 WCs.
2003 WC was beyond the capacity of any single player in the history of game.

And if you are expecting Kohli to do better in that situation, remember, Kohli even ( and Rohit ) struggled to score 25 runs in 10 overs when chasing 340 against England in last WC.