Vernon Philander vs Brian Statham

[Johan]

better test match bowler?

 

[sayon basak]

Statham.

 

[shortpitched713]

Philander the GOAT

 

[sayon basak]

Philander the GOAT

Better than Weekes???

 

[shortpitched713]

Obviously talking about bowling here.

Anyway, even though he's one of my favorites of all time, yeah GOAT is stretching it. But he is an ATG, and top 15 all time bowler, for me. Better than Trueman, Lillee, Anderson, Waqar, Holding, etc.

 

[Johan]

Anyway, even though he's one of my favorites of all time, yeah GOAT is stretching it. But he is an ATG, and top 15 all time bowler, for me. Better than Trueman, Lillee, Anderson, Waqar, Holding, etc.

 

[sayon basak]

View attachment 45939

Is that Bergmann–Bayard pistol?

 

[Coronis]

Obviously talking about bowling here.

Anyway, even though he's one of my favorites of all time, yeah GOAT is stretching it. But he is an ATG, and top 15 all time bowler, for me. Better than Trueman, Lillee, Anderson, Waqar, Holding, etc.

Why?

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Obviously talking about bowling here.

Anyway, even though he's one of my favorites of all time, yeah GOAT is stretching it. But he is an ATG, and top 15 all time bowler, for me. Better than Trueman, Lillee, Anderson, Waqar, Holding, etc.

He’s the bowling version of Hayden I guess?

 

[shortpitched713]

Why?

He's an absolute matchwinner.

The individual numbers and performances he managed in partnership with Steyn during the most successful period in South African Test cricket history should not be underestimated. But they are, for various reasons, but whatever.

He was the absolute GOAT at abusing good conditions, as well. Prove that point wrong, while also dismissing him as only a favorable conditions bully. Despite it being a logical contradiction, people here seem okay with doing it all the time.

 

[Johan]

He's an absolute matchwinner.

The individual numbers and performances he managed in partnership with Steyn during the most successful period in South African Test cricket history should not be underestimated. But they are, for various reasons, but whatever.

He was the absolute GOAT at abusing good conditions, as well. Prove that point wrong, while also dismissing him as only a favorable conditions bully. Despite it being a logical contradiction, people here seem okay with doing it all the time.

Man you basically just rate players by vibes, I respect it.

 

[shortpitched713]

Man you basically just rate players by vibes, I respect it.

224 wickets at 22.32, virtually all during the flat pitcher era, is just "vibes" now. Good to know.

Obviously, one of his main hindrances is longevity, but for a record from the matches he did play, it's quite impressive, I feel.

 

[Johan]

224 wickets at 22.32, virtually all during the flat pitcher era, is just "vibes" now. Good to know.

Trueman has 300 @ 21 etc

 

[shortpitched713]

Trueman has 300 @ 21 etc

Easy bowling Era vs hard bowling era.

 

[Johan]

Easy bowling Era vs hard bowling era.

South African pitches are quite conductive for pace bowlers

 

[Coronis]

He's an absolute matchwinner.

The individual numbers and performances he managed in partnership with Steyn during the most successful period in South African Test cricket history should not be underestimated. But they are, for various reasons, but whatever.

He was the absolute GOAT at abusing good conditions, as well. Prove that point wrong, while also dismissing him as only a favorable conditions bully. Despite it being a logical contradiction, people here seem okay with doing it all the time.

He was great at abusing favourable conditions. So were many others. But he was a lot worse when the conditions weren’t favourable. You don’t think both matter?

 

[Coronis]

Easy bowling Era vs hard bowling era.

Fun fact - in matches where Trueman and Philander bowled batsmen averaged the same.

 

[shortpitched713]

He was great at abusing favourable conditions. So were many others. But he was a lot worse when the conditions weren’t favourable. You don’t think both matter?

Mix those together, and his average is still absolute top tier, given the time period. Even better than Steyn's. So either that means he' the GOAT at abusing conditions, or the narrative that's all he can do is overstated. Or a bit of both.

It can't be he's not the absolute greatest in favorable conditions AND he's just trash with a bit of adversity and overall, because the numbers are just too good.

 

[shortpitched713]

Fun fact - in matches where Trueman and Philander bowled batsmen averaged the same.

Okay, I can go with bringing Trueman up to Philander level.

 

[Coronis]

Mix those together, and his average is still absolute top tier, given the time period. Even better than Steyn's. So either that means he' the GOAT at abusing conditions, or the narrative that's all he can do is overstated. Or a bit of both.

It can't be he's not the absolute greatest in favorable conditions AND he's just trash with a bit of adversity and overall, because the numbers are just too good.

Well yes it can, because he played the majority of his career in favourable conditions. iirc wasn’t he notorious for missing out on tough matches?

Lets also not forget how low his WPI and WPM are.