*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[Bahnz]

So you want domestic sides to play 30+ year olds and imports. Imports that'll need 3-4 years to qualify. Leave them promising ones playing club cricket for many years?

Recycle the national side with some more near 30 year olds? The NZC path of that kind has changed plenty since the last decade. Southee, Boult, Kane, Latham were all picked early. Give the current younger crop some years and they'll deliver.

BTW even the Aussies are now picking young ones of late. Check their squad to play India. Even their domestic and BBL sides are picking young talents.

It's all but natural they'll take time to settle down at the next level.

There's obviously a balance that needs to be struck here. If a guy like Allen has essentially no FC success to fall back on then there's only so much rope you can give them before they need to be hanged. At the same time, Wellington club cricket seems to be a bit of a random number generator at times - Rachin I seem to recall was struggling to average 20 in club cricket back in 2018/19, and wouldn't you know it as soon as he gets on some properly curated tracks and gets some professional coaching he starts making runs.

Wellington's struck a pretty good balance with this in the past few seasons, giving guys like Rachin and Sears a go even when they had established professionals ready and waiting to make up the numbers. But Allen's selection as a full-timer without any real indication that he's up to it is probably a step too far in the other direction. Starting to get serious Andrew de Boorder vibes from the guy.

 

[Kippax]

The batting of Finn Allen ball-by-ball has been an absolute embarrassment to Glenn Pocknall's judgement of what's good enough tbh. Malan has been thoroughly vindicated on his supposedly stern treatment of Allen.

 

[Kippax]

you'll lock onto the chances phillips gave, and i say meh

Phillips is not your typical late 1990s-born NZ cricketer by any means. Never had a brittle vibe at all when he was thriving at the 'A' tourney as an 18-year-old, pulling and hooking up a storm. Not born in this country nor a product of our parenting.

 

[SteveNZ]

There's obviously a balance that needs to be struck here. If a guy like Allen has essentially no FC success to fall back on then there's only so much rope you can give them before they need to be hanged. At the same time, Wellington club cricket seems to be a bit of a random number generator at times - Rachin I seem to recall was struggling to average 20 in club cricket back in 2018/19, and wouldn't you know it as soon as he gets on some properly curated tracks and gets some professional coaching he starts making runs.

Wellington's struck a pretty good balance with this in the past few seasons, giving guys like Rachin and Sears a go even when they had established professionals ready and waiting to make up the numbers. But Allen's selection as a full-timer without any real indication that he's up to it is probably a step too far in the other direction. Starting to get serious Andrew de Boorder vibes from the guy.

What's the comparison here? AdB was never hyped particularly as anything, even though he was NZ U19 captain. Never particularly wanted to make higher honours, was always going to finish early and become an accountant.

People might have attached too much meaning to Finn's hundred against England, when they were hardly running in at all. Hell, they hardly even ran in properly when the first Test rolled around.

 

[Bahnz]

What's the comparison here? AdB was never hyped particularly as anything, even though he was NZ U19 captain. Never particularly wanted to make higher honours, was always going to finish early and become an accountant.

People might have attached too much meaning to Finn's hundred against England, when they were hardly running in at all. Hell, they hardly even ran in properly when the first Test rolled around.

Made big runs for NZ U19's against a very strong India U19 side - in I think 2007? - seemed to be the leader in the age group ranks at that time (admittedly when Kane was still only 16). You know him better than I, so if he'd decided that he never wanted to really pursue a professional career then fair enough, but from an outsider's perspective seemed like a talented age-group player who never really kicked on at domestic level.

Agreed on Allen's hundred v England. Practice matches of that kind are really just open net sessions.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

He’s gone from the Firebirds team for round four, anyway.

 

[MichaelJ2000]

Gonna chip in on the topic of Finn Allen. I've seen a lot of him in Auckland Club Cricket. The kid is unbelievably good. Played some of the most memorable knocks I've seen last season. Tough start to his career, but he'll come good. I've just seen that he's been dropped from the side for the next Plunket Shield game, but I'm sure that he will be a seriously valuable player for Wellington, and then New Zealand for years to come.

 

[nzfan]

I'll give a good example, Rakitha Weerasundara is an interesting case. He was probably the best batsman in the U19s NZ side in 2014. The other players from that bunch

Robert O’Donnell (Auckland) (c) - Captaining Aces

Jeremy Benton (Canterbury) - In and out of Canterbury team

Leo Carter (Canterbury) - Main stay in Canterbury team

Henry Collier (Central Districts) - Don't think he's made the domestic side, the name is very familiar though for some reason

Josh Finnie (Otago) - Main stay for Otago in white ball cricket

Shawn Hicks (Auckland) - In and out of Otago side

Jack Hunter (Otago) - No idea

Kyle Jamieson (Canterbury) - Latest Black Caps superstar

Ken McClure (Canterbury) - Main stay for Canterbury

Brett Randell (Auckland) - Playing for ND

Tim Seifert (Northern Districts) - Black Cap

Dane Watson (Auckland) - Haven't heard much of him

Kurtley Watson (Northern Districts) - Same as above

Luke Williamson (Northern Districts) - Same as above

Rakitha Weerasundara (Wellington) - Playing club cricket and dropped from Wellington A side in the last year or so.

We went by the theory, let him score mountain of runs in club cricket and he will be a solid player for Firebirds or even Black Caps in future. End result, the lad now has been dropped even from Wellington A side. Clearly this bloke needed to have played for Firebirds within a year of making the U19 NZ Side. Now we lost a player that was good enough, had the confidence. Now we have a player that's most likely moved on, isn't good enough to be picked for Wellington A and other U19 players since have taken his spot in Wellington A side. This is an example of mismanagement of the highest order. Meanwhile players from other centers that were reasonable and probably less talented than him have gone on to play for their domestic sides. He's probably 24-25 by now and likely set up a career elsewhere. Just a lost opportunity to develop a reasonable cricketer into a good one.

 

[nzfan]

He’s gone from the Firebirds team for round four, anyway.

That's a shame, he's swapped for someone that Firebirds dropped towards the end of last season. Merry go round on for us right now. Fair enough given the results.

 

[Flem274*]

finn allen opened a lot for auckland. stupid place to debut a teenage dasher. should be judged on his wellington performances

 

[vandem]

Munro to Perth Scorchers BBL. BBL starts 10th Dec so he could be available for the 3 T20Is against WI, depends on how soon Scorchers want him for training / buildup.

Perth Scorchers sign up Colin Munro for 2020-21 BBL season

They have also roped in Joe Clarke as an early-season replacement for Jason Roy

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[Immenso]

finn allen opened a lot for auckland. stupid place to debut a teenage dasher. should be judged on his wellington performances

I have zero memory of this. So must have been white ball (if it happened).

 

[jcas0167]

Allen was being mentored by Crowe before his untimely passing. Suspect he would have kicked on more if he had been around to continue that as he did with Taylor and Guptill.

Speaking of promising youth players is Thorn Parkes still playing @Kippax?

 

[Immenso]

I have made a visual chart of current squad depth and areas of concern or weakness.
I have arranged the current Blackcaps, by stats, as per the cricinfo criteria (played in last 2 years).

Removed Astle, as retired from red-ball. Added Neesham.
Added 3 uncapped players on verges (Ravindra, Conway, Young), just for age comparison at this stage.

Red is areas of concern or weakness.
Highlighted in yellow is likely test first 11, at home.



Statistically.
No real concerns with first 11, except for ages of 4 players. Weaknesses is with some of the backups in some areas.
Biggest concern/imbalance is that the entire spinners grouping has no yellow highlight. Despite currently still good stats for Patel and Sommerville based on their away performances. As much to do with pitches, incredible debut series by Jamieson, and CdGs goodness, as with the spinners though.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Would love to see Taylor finish with one big score this series as I don't think he has much left in the tank. He's always been susceptible to negotiating high-class bowling and I feel that Roach/Gabriel, but especially Holder, are going to trouble him greatly

 

[Moss]

Would love to see Taylor finish with one big score this series as I don't think he has much left in the tank. He's always been susceptible to negotiating high-class bowling and I feel that Roach/Gabriel, but especially Holder, are going to trouble him greatly

Yeah, in the same period in which his ODI game has jumped a level, his test output has been pretty hit and miss, especially abroad. Still a force in home conditions which is just as well considering all confirmed upcoming tests are in NZ; but yes West Indies and Pakistan could make life difficult for him. Will be great if he makes it to the 2023 World Cup, and I see that as a more realistic goal for him than squeezing every ounce out of his test career.

 

[nzfan]

You know cricket is such a fickle game... at the moment we are looking really go no doubt about that other than apparent lack of wicket taking spinners at home. Ajaz is miles ahead in my opinion as for bowling in red ball is concerned. I know it's a long shot but I think Ravindra is quite a good spinner, barely misses the length but bowling like 3 over spells. Doesn't help Bracewell bowls way too many overs. I thought once Jeetan Patel has retired they would use Ravindra as the main spinner but nope Firebirds bowl him in white ball and Bracewell has taken up spin bowling. Not a long term solution.

I think we'll be all right at home with the players at disposal but our biggest threat is injuries. Guys aren't getting any younger. I think the average age would be about 30 I'd presume. You'd probably term Jamieson and Latham are young. Rest are either 30 or over 30. Chances are we are going to see some consistent injuries. Most also play all formats so the chances of injuries increased that much more. As long as Boult, Kane and Taylor are consistently available we'll be all good.

I don't see Taylor retiring and don't think he should. Play till the next one day world cup and retire then. He's not what you call super fit but barely misses a game so he's generally match fit. Old school type.

 

[Bahnz]

I don't see Taylor retiring and don't think he should. Play till the next one day world cup and retire then. He's not what you call super fit but barely misses a game so he's generally match fit. Old school type.

Blocky rolls in his CW grave.

 

[Flem274*]

i think ross will get the 20 tons then call it a day in tests. the edge has come off his test batting, and a lot of his best innings have come after people called him ****, so him being slightly **** and unable to respond anymore would annoy him imo.

next summer i can see conway at #4, or if he shits the bed or opens will young will be there.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

I reckon Taylor would be holding on for the test championship final if we make it.