*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[Bahnz]

I honestly just about think playing 4 seamers at the new WACA would be my first choice. There's enough variety in the attack - even split of lefties and righties, with Southee with height and swing, Boult with pace and swing, Lockie with raw pace and Wagner with psychopathy and bouncers. We all remember how much of a liability Craig was on our last tour, and while Santner is a better bowler, I don't reckon he's likely to make much impact. The only guy I'd consider playing ahead of Ferguson in a spin bowling roll would be Sommerville, as his experience of the conditions could be seriously handy.

 

[Prince EWS]

I honestly just about think playing 4 seamers at the new WACA would be my first choice. There's enough variety in the attack - even split of lefties and righties, with Southee with height and swing, Boult with pace and swing, Lockie with raw pace and Wagner with psychopathy and bouncers. We all remember how much of a liability Craig was on our last tour, and while Santner is a better bowler, I don't reckon he's likely to make much impact. The only guy I'd consider playing ahead of Ferguson in a spin bowling roll would be Sommerville, as his experience of the conditions could be seriously handy.

To me it'd depend as much on how CdG was travelling at the team as Santner. If he's going to be playing anyway and he's bowling decently then I think four quicks on top of him might be redundant. If he wasn't travelling too well at the time (either with the conditions in Australia as a bowler, or just in general as a player) and you could either leave him out for Young or be happy just playing him as a batsman.

 

[Flem274*]

I honestly just about think playing 4 seamers at the new WACA would be my first choice. There's enough variety in the attack - even split of lefties and righties, with Southee with height and swing, Boult with pace and swing, Lockie with raw pace and Wagner with psychopathy and bouncers. We all remember how much of a liability Craig was on our last tour, and while Santner is a better bowler, I don't reckon he's likely to make much impact. The only guy I'd consider playing ahead of Ferguson in a spin bowling roll would be Sommerville, as his experience of the conditions could be seriously handy.

im very leery of getting sucked into the 4 quicks trap

i wouldn't play lockie to start with, but the other 3 would be getting told that if they even think of bowling like they did in the 2015 tour, they're out and he's in.

 

[Bahnz]

I just think the Southee and Wagner better hope they don't get any little niggles during the England series, because if Ferguson gets in the side I think it might be a while before he leaves.

 

[Flem274*]

if lockie learns to swing the ball (and we'll know when he does because he'll average about 6 in the shield) then our 3 incumbents better be averaging less than 20 for the season tbh.

it's great to have such competition for spots.

 

[Kippax]

The brilliant idea to get Jesse Ryder motivated again has finally hit someone btw, and it's depressing as hell. It was the chance to turn out for a team called PINT.

 

[Flem274*]

low key hoping greg hay gets a call up if one of latham/raval gets injured.

they'll pick young and play him out of position, that much was clear with the nz a selections, but so many complete randoms have gotten nz caps in brown paper bags over the years it would be nice for someone actually good at opening the batting to get one.

also how good would a random dean brownlie return from the dead to back foot punch and cut his way to even more scores on bouncy decks be? i always rated him as a test class player if he could overcome his spin deficiencies. it's a shame he doesn't really stand out even for nd now.

 

[Jezroy]

Ouch. World Cup pain. Ouch.

 

[thundaboult]

Ouch. World Cup pain. Ouch.

Just don't. Nah.

 

[NZTailender]

From the other thread. Obviously a bit soon to start talking about rebuilding, but I feel England's success started as soon as they exited pathetically in 2015. We need a decent opening combo and a finisher. Bowling was ace.

Tbh, I don't know about this. I had thought at the end of the last world cup this would be our time as all the young guns (Boult, Williamson et al) would have matured to their peak. They have, but we're weaker than 2015 imho because our opening combo was pretty abysmal this time round (no fault of nipples), we didn't really have a solid finisher (soz CdG but you're no Grunter) and Santner is no Vettori.

It's not as though the current side is ancient. A conceivable XI for 2023 could be:

1. Seifert 24 or Phillips 26
2. Nicholls - 31
3. Williamson - 32
4. Young - 30
5. Latham - 31
6. Neesham - 32 (so impressed with him this tournament)
7. as yet unidentified lower order biffer (Clarkson?)
8. Santner - 31
9. Henry - 31
10. Fergsuon - 32
11. Boult - 33

Ideally we want one or two more under 30s. I could see Henry not being there - as much as I love him - as he seems like he'll forever struggle to cement himself in our XI. Ferguson could break down. Nicholls may move to 5 and Latham may just Peter out in ODIs. I mean, Guptill would be 36 - it's conceivable he could still be around as well.

I always thought a player peak is 28-32. If anything there's a lack of a Taylor-esque experienced player in the squad.

I think our bowling was stronger this tournament, but batting far weaker. I was surprised we made the final, tbh.

But yeah, also the subcontinent factor.

 

[Mike5181]

A lot of those South African players will be eligible by then. Devon Conway's only got about 12-18 months left, iirc. Haven't seen him play, but he was domestic player of the year so obviously one to watch

 

[Athlai]

What does a Devon con weigh

God damn it brain

 

[Kippax]

Does have the vicious square strengths of maybe more a Test player, I know Ellis shut him down well once with a good field setting that took advantage of him being slightly weaker straight, a few teams have found areas to bog his strike-rates right down. Pleasingly ND is not one of them.

 

[Jezroy]

Just summing up my post in the World Cup Final thread... I think things are looking good for us.

World Test Championship - we’ve got a reasonably friendly draw (wonder if Aussie will roll out more roads against us...?). Would back us to make a semi, but may be a bit tough as it’s only the top two in the finals.

T20 World Cup - we have so many to build up to this. And since no one really cares about JAMT20s, really use the matches in the next year to find the best team. Not pick a team and give them heaps of time to get into form, then find out they aren’t good enough.

ODI side - I think things actually look quite good. Don’t know how Guptill will go after such a disappointing World Cup. Despite this, he’ll still go down as one of our best ever ODI bats. Just one with a shocker tournament in 2019. And Taylor won’t make it. Other than that... squad looking to keep building from here and add to those oh so obvious areas of weakness.

 

[vandem]

From the other thread. Obviously a bit soon to start talking about rebuilding, but I feel England's success started as soon as they exited pathetically in 2015. We need a decent opening combo and a finisher. Bowling was ace.

Conway will be 32, ideal #4 or #5 middle order run grinder after Ross retires.

Need to give our 2nd and 3rd best batsmen (Latham, Young) a stable spot. Latham #5, Young opening with Seifert / Phillips?

Need to identify 3-4 younger players with high potentials and give them opportunities. Ravindra obviously. Seifert / Phillips probably. Finn Allen / Clarkson / Leopard possibly. Jamieson / Tickner / Nathan Smith possibly.

 

[Flem274*]

i dont rate conway

i think we're a great chance in 2023 if we get the combinations right. guys like rachin are obviously crucial to our balance.

spin bowling countries are a lot more boring tho since i prefer to watch pace attacks. even india have a good one now. maybe they should take it to sa instead?

 

[Greenlite]

From the other thread. Obviously a bit soon to start talking about rebuilding, but I feel England's success started as soon as they exited pathetically in 2015. We need a decent opening combo and a finisher. Bowling was ace.

Originally Posted by NZTailender View Post
Tbh, I don't know about this. I had thought at the end of the last world cup this would be our time as all the young guns (Boult, Williamson et al) would have matured to their peak. They have, but we're weaker than 2015 imho because our opening combo was pretty abysmal this time round (no fault of nipples), we didn't really have a solid finisher (soz CdG but you're no Grunter) and Santner is no Vettori.

It's not as though the current side is ancient. A conceivable XI for 2023 could be:

1. Seifert 24 or Phillips 26
2. Nicholls - 31
3. Williamson - 32
4. Young - 30
5. Latham - 31
6. Neesham - 32 (so impressed with him this tournament)
7. as yet unidentified lower order biffer (Clarkson?)
8. Santner - 31
9. Henry - 31
10. Fergsuon - 32
11. Boult - 33

Ideally we want one or two more under 30s. I could see Henry not being there - as much as I love him - as he seems like he'll forever struggle to cement himself in our XI. Ferguson could break down. Nicholls may move to 5 and Latham may just Peter out in ODIs. I mean, Guptill would be 36 - it's conceivable he could still be around as well.

I always thought a player peak is 28-32. If anything there's a lack of a Taylor-esque experienced player in the squad.

I think our bowling was stronger this tournament, but batting far weaker. I was surprised we made the final, tbh.

But yeah, also the subcontinent factor.

Still hurting from the other day, and the fatigue, I'm not 18 anymore.

The 5-run drama and wrong striker hurts even more now =(

Anyway my wife is quite keen into the Burger King T20s and BC in the last few years so with limited knowledge we thought the line up/squad building would be something like this

Openers
Young
Seifert
Guppy

MIddle order
Kane
Ross (transition to tests and batting coach?)
Latham
Nichols
Allen

All rounders
Neesham
CDG
Anderson
Kuggs

Spinners
Ish
Santa
Ravi (batting opener?)

Pace
Boult
Henry
Tinkler
Jamieson

Express
Fergy
Milne
Kuggs (all rounder)

I hope we get more $$$ and resources from the govt after making 2 finals and not actually losing the latest one

I'd prefer the new players get opportunities when the ODIs/T20s starts again and mix all the players to test combinations, get competition and learn from Guppy/Taylor before these two are phased out

The new guys impressed me over the T20 series vs India and SL and I always thought the next team would be stronger than the current side, Taylor doesn't really make that many runs (Nips and Latham showed they're ready to step up) and Guppy's bat went missing for a year now. We'd miss the experience and Taylor's strategy/leadership, and Guppy's fielding. Hopefully Kane/Latham can grow into their roles but we need diverse leadership/think tank brains there.

and we need to develop another leftie pace bowler

I actually like our T20 chances in AUS, we have 3 who can crack 150KM - Fergy, Milne, Kuggs, and a whole bunch of firepower, as long as they actually get to warm up in AUS to get used to the conditions and heat.

T20 likely

Seifert
Young/Guppy
Munro
Kane
Neesham
Anderson/CDG
Kuggs
Milne
Ish
Fergy
Boult/Tinkner

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Ross (transition to tests and batting coach?)

Dunno about Ross as a coach

 

[Greenlite]

Dunno about Ross as a coach

he seems to teach Latham well batting together, but he does have a listening issue, me and my daughter called him like 10 times for a picture post game while he's signing autographs 2 metres away, we were in the queue too, he didn't hear a thing. Maybe that's why gentle Kane kept getting run out by him lol

 

[Athlai]

When Taylor gets ear surgery will he come back as strongly as he did after eye surgery?