*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[kaetor]

Has anyone found any good highlights of the NZ lads over in the UK? I've been looking for highlights of Ferguson/Milne but sans one yorker on the Derbyshire twitter and short highlights of a match where Milne cleaned up the tail I haven't found too much.

 

[Kippax]

Nah, no video scorecards allowed in the rights agreement with Sky UK, it seems to me. The ECB's certainly got enough money sloshing around to put a few guys in charge of doing brilliant video scorecards if they were permitted to, but they don't. MCC's Young Cricketers are putting up good (almost live) ones for the first time in 2018, that's it.

Derbyshire's Twitter feed is quick to put up any spectacular Ferguson wickets, and you can cut out all the text tweets a county puts out by adding /media.
https://twitter.com/DerbyshireCCC/media

 

[Kippax]

So basically everyone is a gun apart from Munro, whose numbers are still not bad. Impressive.

No, not everyone. Sussex continue to pay for its superficial 'quick glance at his Cricinfo page' analysis of Tom Bruce.

Also I guess for taking the endorsement for that piece of hiring from Ross Taylor, not realising he was going to be a very partisan shill for advancing a Central Districts career.

 

[Bahnz]

Mark Chapman not exactly setting the CPL alight either.

 

[Kippax]

Howsie's viewing the thread. Sure he's keen to tell us that either the Sussex or St Lucia money could've been better spent on Seifert, no doubt.

All those bad T20 seasons against Luke Fletcher and co. keeping Seifert's Cricinfo page from looking as superficially pretty and eye-catching as it should.

 

[_Ed_]

Mark Chapman not exactly setting the CPL alight either.

Phillips also seemed to be struggling a bit, but I see he got a nice half-century today.

 

[Kippax]

Love that shocking ball from Devcich on a free hit at 0:41.

Then check out that lbw decision on Phillips at 1:16. No wonder NZC is so jealous of this CPL being infinitely bigger than NZ's T20 comp. Money for old rope, for the most part.

 

[Flem274*]

So how long before Rachin makes his test dayboo?

We showed surprising restraint with Kane, but Rachin is an opener and an allrounder so he has far less competition.

I give it 12 months. A big FC season, a poor test return by an incumbent and he's in. Tim Seifert or Finn Allen to replace Ross when he retires.

 

[Kippax]

No I think for me he needed to score more runs than Deepak Joon and Andrew Salter over his last 15-20 games of Wellington club cricket for him to be really vying with either Raval or Latham for Test caps before 2020. Often these 'controlled environment' guys who've put in 100,000 hours in solo training, hitting very predictable clay pigeons in indoor centres, take time to develop their canny side or the ego needed to shoot live game very well, as well as their tutors thought they would.

I mean, we may as well just not have the Ewen Chatfield Trophy on Wellington grounds at all, just get everyone in buses and drive for hours each weekend, if it does indeed pan out that the new rival to Latham/Raval/Williamson was having his style of play so inhibited by our surfaces, that he couldn't help but let Deepak Joon be Wellington's club batting MVP. Nor a Glamorgan lower-order guy with a FC average of 24, for that matter.

 

[Kippax]

It's the fact he's got good deliveries like that in him, and the fact we're about to commit to giving several Test caps to someone who's a far removed from being a shaped and moulded NZC product as Ajaz Patel is, that's piqued the selectors' interest so early I think. Also that in the UAE you need someone who works the ones well, and in this regard he's not a typical block/bash NZ batsman at all.

 

[nzfan]

No I think for me he needed to score more runs than Deepak Joon and Andrew Salter over his last 15-20 games of Wellington club cricket for him to be really vying with either Raval or Latham for Test caps before 2020. Often these 'controlled environment' guys who've put in 100,000 hours in solo training, hitting very predictable clay pigeons in indoor centres, take time to develop their canny side or the ego needed to shoot live game very well, as well as their tutors thought they would.

I mean, we may as well just not have the Ewen Chatfield Trophy on Wellington grounds at all, just get everyone in buses and drive for hours each weekend, if it does indeed pan out that the new rival to Latham/Raval/Williamson was having his style of play so inhibited by our surfaces, that he couldn't help but let Deepak Joon be Wellington's club batting MVP. Nor a Glamorgan lower-order guy with a FC average of 24, for that matter.

Let me give you an insight of what I've heard from NZC Set up. This lad Ravindra is one of the lads that is contracted by NZC during the winter or something like that. NZC conducts camps on a fortnight basis. They pick the best of the players from each region and works with them. So far I've heard Ravindra has been the best batsman on show. This including against the top 4 black cap bowlers (will leave you to guess the names). One of them was saying they haven't seen him get out even on a tough track during these camps. No one in the setup has any doubt he's going to be an unbelievable player for NZ. They are not silly to pick a player to play for NZ A based on U19s. They see him every week batting or bowling against the best players we have in NZ. It's so rare that a player in NZ is going to be playing for NZ A ahead of first class. Nevertheless he doesn't need to score runs in club cricket which proves nothing but I believe he needs experience playing against strong first class sides, other countries' A teams before they can get him into full time NZ team. I trust NZ cricket now is in good hands and has very good programmes to develop up and coming player. Ravindra alone won't be in the list of very promising up and coming players. I can see 3 or 4 such players coming to fore in the next couple of years. On another note watch out for Finn Allen as well, bloody good player of spin.

It'll be silly to have a players like this wasting their precious time playing club cricket to prove they're better than other club players or even first class players. Similarly Ben Sears bowls gas and probably is one of the quickest in the country right now. I've heard often they don't want him to bowl in club cricket and run in on softer grounds then pick up life long injuries. No one in cricket set up ever rates club cricket mate, that's the reality. Club cricket is just that, amateur.

 

[Athlai]

Ravindra is absolutely someone I expect to get in the Test team a year or two before anyone would expect it to happen. How old was Kane when it happened?

 

[nzfan]

Love that shocking ball from Devcich on a free hit at 0:41.

Then check out that lbw decision on Phillips at 1:16. No wonder NZC is so jealous of this CPL being infinitely bigger than NZ's T20 comp. Money for old rope, for the most part.

Very poor ball to back up a no ball, short, wide and slapped... I haven't ever rated Devcich as a bowler. Good bat though.

 

[vandem]

So how long before Rachin makes his test dayboo?....

In the next 3 months.

He will be a success with bat and ball for NZ A, will get asked to stay on with the Black Caps as a "standby" player, and will replace either a no-impact Astle or a no-impact de Grandhomme for the final test.

He will drop out of the playing XI when Santner returns in the summer, but will be in a few Black Caps sqauds over the next 2 seasons, either filling an injury gap, or as 13 / 14th player, like how Latham was introduced.

 

[vandem]

Ravindra is absolutely someone I expect to get in the Test team a year or two before anyone would expect it to happen. How old was Kane when it happened?

Kane, test debut at 20, with 2 full domestic seasons (2007-08 1 game lbw Andre Adams for 2 + 0, 2008-09 701 runs @ 54, 2009-10 614 runs @ 47) and 2 games for NZ A (2008-09 105 runs @ 52).

Was close to being picked in 2009-10 (home vs Pak + Bang + Aus, middle order was Taylor + Flynn/Fulton/Elliott/Guptill/Ingram/Sinclair), but I think selectors didn't want him to be battered by Aussies early in his career, c.f. Martin Crowe vs Aus, Ken Rutherford in WI, preferred to ease him in on a tour.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Williamson debuted at 6 and then later moved up to 3. Perhaps Ravindra at 6 and 2nd spinner in Sri Lanka next August

 

[Flem274*]

we really need to sort out the level below FC tbh. One of the advantages australia has over the world is club cricket is serious business rather than just the prequel to the pub

we still get plenty of guys who construct their career (Watling, Elliott, O'Brien etc) coming through the ranks but man I can't help but think we miss out massively with some guys. The Vettori led sides were a massive example of a few top NZ talents (Taylor, Ryder, McCullum, Vettori, Southee) mixed in with a pack of sub-test standard players. Martin and O'Brien were the only middle ground. The gap between the best and worst 3 players in the test side then was ridiculous.

 

[nzfan]

we really need to sort out the level below FC tbh. One of the advantages australia has over the world is club cricket is serious business rather than just the prequel to the pub

we still get plenty of guys who construct their career (Watling, Elliott, O'Brien etc) coming through the ranks but man I can't help but think we miss out massively with some guys. The Vettori led sides were a massive example of a few top NZ talents (Taylor, Ryder, McCullum, Vettori, Southee) mixed in with a pack of sub-test standard players. Martin and O'Brien were the only middle ground. The gap between the best and worst 3 players in the test side then was ridiculous.

Grant Elliot was not a product of club cricket, he was a well known player in South Africa prior he migrated to New Zealand.

Nothing you can do about club cricket there is no interest or dough to spend on club cricket. I guess NZC is more invested these days in age group cricket and rightly so. You go to any club in and around NZ they are stale. Too much politics, can't meet eye to eye the local cricket associations and old folks that want club cricket to be played like in the 70s. They are extremely cash strapped and barely a dog watches the games. Dodgy contracts with the clueless companies maintaining grounds. Lack of good decks, sight screen and bare necessities to be called a good cricket club. In places like Wellington there are too many club sides, every tom, dick and harry plays for the top side. Too many useless clubs but oppose any move to amalgamate. Overbearing administrators that have no idea how to generate money for the club or absolutely disinterested but hang around doing nothing.

You're right the English, Indian, Aussie and South Africa have very strong club cricket culture. Barring Auckland and Christchurch club cricket is like you said a prequel to pub. No one gives a damn.

 

[Howsie]

Which is where Fergus Hickey/Hawke Cup cricket comes in handy for ND. Club cricket is a pretty poor standard in all but the Bay of Plenty competition, but all six district associations ( Northland, Counties, Hamilton, Waikato.Valley, Bay of Plenty and Poverty Bay) play against each other over the course of th summer. Most coache and selectors for those teams aren’t just looking at the club stat sheet and picking the team like that, it doesn’t work like that unfortunately. From there you’re going ND A, which even then might not be the better performing players at the Fergus Hickey level and then obvs ND and first class cricket.

Anyone selecting or not selecting players based on club form IMO is an incompetent moron.

 

[Flem274*]

i don't dispute club cricket is a disappointment all round, and NZ is very lucky to have the Hawke Cup where the CD/ND feeder provinces feature prominently but the North Island regions can only carry NZ so far.

which is why NZC need to start breaking knee caps and drag clubs kicking and screaming into 2018. i don't know how to do it but i'm not paid to so i don't have to.