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*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
I went at pains to explain that I'm not suggesting that our players fake being dickheads. All I'm against is the 'Haha we're all mates who play in the IPL together' kinda thing which I've been seeing lately from our guys.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I went at pains to explain that I'm not suggesting that our players fake being dickheads. All I'm against is the 'Haha we're all mates who play in the IPL together' kinda thing which I've been seeing lately from our guys.
That is the point. If the players' nature is to be friendly with guys they actually happen to be friendly with, why try and act like they are not?
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Tbh there is an uncomfortable correlation between teams that are ****s and teams that dominate.

But it's also true there is a spectrum. You can be very intense like the All Blacks or Springboks rather than crossing into manchild territory like peak Lehmannball.
They were manchilds even through the 00s. The manchilds were just ****ing good at cricket.
 

Moss

International Captain
Richard Petrie was a chronic sledger. Didn't help him.
Parore too.Ended up with an under-par record (with the bat at least) for someone of his abilities.

The only time I’ve seen sustained sledging actually work for NZ was on that 1999 tour of England, guess it was driven in part by the local press continually talking NZ down over a four test series (NZ actually used to play those!)

EDIT: I suppose the 2011 QF was a glorious exception too
 

Moss

International Captain
But I dont see any reason why being a nice person means you cannot succeed as a team. And there are always folks who seem to be pretty dickish in their behaviour who never have any big sledging/stand-offs with opposition.
Yeah agreed. I can only conclude from Haddin 2015 and O’Donnell that niceness (inherent or otherwise) on the field just makes them bloody uncomfortable. Like it is the complete antethesis of their idea of what cricket is supposed to be.
 

Neil Young

State Vice-Captain
Parore too.Ended up with an under-par record (with the bat at least) for someone of his abilities.

The only time I’ve seen sustained sledging actually work for NZ was on that 1999 tour of England, guess it was driven in part by the local press continually talking NZ down over a four test series (NZ actually used to play those!)

EDIT: I suppose the 2011 QF was a glorious exception too
Indeed. We have reached 3 short form finals and won the test championship over the past 8 years while being generally amenable characters on the field. I just don't see any correlation between being prickly and winning games. And, anyway, some players spoil for a fight because it focused them more. S Waugh did, Border did. And maybe Kohli as well, who's as combative as they come on the field. It's such a binary, Aussie-centric view proffered by O'Donnell.

And, yeah, Cairns' sledging in that '99 England series was something else.
 

Yeoman

U19 Captain
I am not from NZ however on a personal level I will at this distance in time confess that at times when I was more successful in life I was quite aggressive on a personal level and others probably though that I was a ****. I think though that this attitude helped me to succeed and do not regret taking it.
 

Neil Young

State Vice-Captain
I am not from NZ however on a personal level I will at this distance in time confess that at times when I was more successful in life I was quite aggressive on a personal level and others probably though that I was a ****. I think though that this attitude helped me to succeed and do not regret taking it.
Can you give an example?
 

Yeoman

U19 Captain
In the workplace I may well have pushed people too hard and neglected interpersonal factors. When I was in education I was rather ****y, in your face and through my words actions and body language tried an adolescent form of mental disintegration on my fellow students. I enjoyed doing it at the time. It was rather fun, however that is not my natural persona.
 

Neil Young

State Vice-Captain
In the workplace I may well have pushed people too hard and neglected interpersonal factors. When I was in education I was rather ****y, in your face and through my words actions and body language tried an adolescent form of mental disintegration on my fellow students. I enjoyed doing it at the time. It was rather fun, however that is not my natural persona.
OK. And how do you feel it contributed to your tangible success? Not personally sure of the relevance to cricket here, but it's interesting!
 

Yeoman

U19 Captain
Adopting this persona meant that I was entirely focused on achieving success. I weighed up every action around whether it would help me to achieve my goals. I felt mentally sharper for it and did not mind in the least the time and effort that I was putting in.
 

thundaboult

International Debutant
In summary, different strokes for different folks.

Anger may get the best out of you and help your focus, for others it could be detrimental.
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
The O'Donnell take is a classic radio example of having to fill space with drivel. Hilariously piss poor take. Playing to their pinhead, faux macho audience.

Kane averaged 80+ in that tournament, whilst not being a ****, getting out on 95 v Pakistan at the absolute ignorance of his own glory and statistics, etc. He is one of the greats of all time and has never sledged, been involved in any controversy, he is friendly with people, and just does things his way. In our game there's overperforming nice guys, and underperforming assholes.

The idea that you have to be seen to be a **** on field, or that ignoring someone prone on the ground will make you more competitive and bowl the next ball quicker or more accurately, is the most laughably pathetic thing I've ever heard. As a player, you act in accordance with your personality and what you feel is right and wrong. Yes, these guys play in the IPL and in franchise teams together, so it's more chummy than it was in the 80s where Allan Border rocked up and didn't talk to Gower all series, in the name of competitiveness. But to think that it's not as competitive or some teams are rolling over to have someone scratch their tummy because they help someone with cramp, honestly I think it's the dumbest **** I've ever read. Since Ian Healy said wives on tour caused Australia to be bowled out for 60 in 2015 Ashes.
 

Neil Young

State Vice-Captain
Amateur psychology to one side, I'm fairly optimistic for the next WC and test cycles. Obviously succession planning is beyond the current leadership but there are some really good prospects around the traps.

If only even a couple of them make the grade, we'll be in a good place (I was going to use the phrase 'in good stead'. Unironically).

Batting in the longer term is question mark but should be good for the next four years with Conway, KW and Bossman Daryl.

I'm looking forward to seeing a selection of - or all of - O'Rourke, Shipley, Foulkes, Fisher, Sears, Smith, Abbas, Clarke, Clark, Ashok, Todd? Hart? in the international fold over the next few years.

I'm quite excited.
 

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